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Why not hire part-time developers?

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Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#171

Post by novok »

yibg wrote: post #118
qrohlf wrote: post #10

I experienced this in the extreme recently. I'm a very experienced dev in a very in-demand field. Money is not a huge priority for me in my career. Flexibility is. I have a proven track record of success in part-time roles after converting to part time at my previous company (after 2 years of full-time, of course). I spent 3+ months trying to get part-time engagements, and was willing to consider both consulting and…

We’ve tried part time developers, but so far haven’t been able to do it successfully. The problem usually comes down to 2 things: 1) there is a constant amount of overhead that is always needed regardless of how long you work for in a week. Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week a full time dev has 30 hours to do other things where as a half time d…

I agree. There is too much shared state inside software dev work. I think the only time part time might work is if the person has worked for you full time for a while, is fairly established, is a low management overhead employee (low/no drama, no hand holding, self-directed, gets the point quickly when you ask/tell them in small amounts of description, doesn't need mentorship and and gets stuff done). But then what often happens with part time devs like this is their one foot out the door, so they will probably leave in a few months anyway.

In other professions where the shared state isn't as big, such as medicine or therapy, you see way more part time style work happen actively in the industry. Be it working for 2-4 clinics part time or just doing half hours so they can focus more on other things in their lives.

Another kind of role that I think works well part time is an advisor / consultant expert role where your hired to verify things are being done correctly in your sub field and are used to train others design wise as a 3rd party. Which is another sr / experienced type of role.

Another type of part time that might work is working on your own project as a solo dev in maintenance mode once your established. But also only lasts so long as competitors get ahead of you.

Part time not working well is something inherent to the job itself unfortunately.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#172

Post by yurishimo »

yibg wrote: post #167
cloogshicer wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week [...] There's your problem.

Why is this a problem? You can replace meeting time with time reading specs / requirement if you’d like. Point is you need some constant amount of time to understand the problem domain. If 2 people need to do that then that’s twice the time needed.

Yea this has been my experience as well. You either have meetings, or spend hours reading specs and a sync talking back and forth to ensure the requirements are correct.

The only way I see real value is if you’re the sold dev/architect or if you can come in and confidently pick up tickets and they’re properly scoped and documented.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#173

Post by urthor »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #164
urthor wrote: post #160

I don't see how part-time developers will ever work. As a developer we are not paid for the time in a chair. We're paid to have the "code base, and all the business context" in our brain. Then solve problems. If you're a part time developer, what you're not doing is devoting less time to output . What you're doing is devoting less time to meetings and knowing the codebase . Aka input. And everyone knows, the better y…

Serious question for you: why stop at 40 hours a week?

I mean, there's quite a lot of famous employers that pay you a lot of money to work more than 40 hours a week no?

But also, the nature of education etc means that a mediocre developer who works 70 hours a week, will probably be less effective than a brilliant savant working 20 hours.

Usually, instead of paying the mediocre developer to work 80 hours a week, it's cheaper to pay a better developer double, to work 40 hours.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#174

Post by Aeolun »

yibg wrote: post #118
qrohlf wrote: post #10

I experienced this in the extreme recently. I'm a very experienced dev in a very in-demand field. Money is not a huge priority for me in my career. Flexibility is. I have a proven track record of success in part-time roles after converting to part time at my previous company (after 2 years of full-time, of course). I spent 3+ months trying to get part-time engagements, and was willing to consider both consulting and…

We’ve tried part time developers, but so far haven’t been able to do it successfully. The problem usually comes down to 2 things: 1) there is a constant amount of overhead that is always needed regardless of how long you work for in a week. Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week a full time dev has 30 hours to do other things where as a half time d…

> if these take up 10 hours a week

Well yeah. There’s your problem.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#175

Post by Aeolun »

yibg wrote: post #167
cloogshicer wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week [...] There's your problem.

Why is this a problem? You can replace meeting time with time reading specs / requirement if you’d like. Point is you need some constant amount of time to understand the problem domain. If 2 people need to do that then that’s twice the time needed.

Having a meeting involves more than 1 person spending time. Reading a spec involved only one person investing time (only those that need to know it anyway).

Doing it in a meeting where everyone has different questions, tangents and other cruft that you have to sit through is extremely inefficient.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#176

Post by yurishimo »

lupire wrote: post #156
AQuantized wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way many people I've known seem to achieve flexibility is to accept a role somewhere relatively laid back, typically at a large but non-tech corporation. If they're coming from a much more intense environment and working remotely, it often requires only a couple of hours work a day to over perform, if that. It seems like it's almost impossible to get a role that's explicitly part time (as you've experienced) but…

How do you in advance if it's relatively laid back?

You don’t. You’re taking the laid back job for the flexibility. If you want to make lots of money and climb the dev ladder, you work for startups or giant corps offering RSUs

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#177

Post by Aeolun »

jrochkind1 wrote: post #147
ozim wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that 2nd point is that quite often people need "full time salary" so it is not that management somehow has backwards thinking. I have a friend that can really work 4 hours a day, but he is a special case where he does not have a family to upkeep and no mortgage. He is also a bit hard on the frugality. But finding such person is basically 1 in a million. If I post a job with 4h a day which amounts to 1/2 of a nor…

Someone who's getting offered $300K+ for a full time job... Even 50% of that is already a full-time salary for many.

Not if you have a 2M mortgage

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#178

Post by PeneDiabolico »

I've noticed something similar the past few years. For context, through highschool I interned as a software developer and was hired full-time during my gap year. Now, I'm studying a bachelor's in Computer Science in a foreign country and my visa only allows part-time work. I've been offered full-time positions and I have to decline because I don't feel like getting deported. I hardly see part-time positions. I constantly apply to new positions, mention my work limits, and contact recruiters but no luck yet.

It's disheartening to work retail when I could be working in software development improving my skills and with less financial stress.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#179

Post by torgian »

ozim wrote: post #124
yibg wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’ve tried part time developers, but so far haven’t been able to do it successfully. The problem usually comes down to 2 things: 1) there is a constant amount of overhead that is always needed regardless of how long you work for in a week. Meetings and collaboration to figure out what to build, discuss issues etc. if these take up 10 hours a week a full time dev has 30 hours to do other things where as a half time d…

Yeah that 2nd point is that quite often people need "full time salary" so it is not that management somehow has backwards thinking. I have a friend that can really work 4 hours a day, but he is a special case where he does not have a family to upkeep and no mortgage. He is also a bit hard on the frugality. But finding such person is basically 1 in a million. If I post a job with 4h a day which amounts to 1/2 of a nor…

Personally, I would take that part time job at 80/90K a year, simply because that's all I need and I value my free time for other projects, cycling, whatever.

However, I'm not "there" yet as a developer. Maybe in a few years after I've proven myself.

Re: Why not hire part-time developers?

#180

Post by Aeolun »

yibg wrote: post #136
ozim wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah that 2nd point is that quite often people need "full time salary" so it is not that management somehow has backwards thinking. I have a friend that can really work 4 hours a day, but he is a special case where he does not have a family to upkeep and no mortgage. He is also a bit hard on the frugality. But finding such person is basically 1 in a million. If I post a job with 4h a day which amounts to 1/2 of a nor…

The other problem is with overhead 2 half time employees != 1 full time employee. There is the extra equipment cost, benefits (perhaps), management overhead etc. e.g. If I replace a team of 7 full time engineers with 14 half time engineers, do I keep 1 manager? That seems like a very large team for 1 person to handle, so now maybe I need another manager too. From a purely economic perspective hiring half time enginee…

I think the idea is that you replace a team of 7 full-time engineers with 7 half-time engineers, and get 80% of the benefits at 50% of the cost.
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