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Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

reuters.com

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Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#21

Post by christkv »

rmbyrro wrote: post #8

I don't get it. A nuclear accident halfway across the world and Germany decides to shut down. A war halfway across the continent and it decides to keep on? Both threats (nuclear accident and Putin's madness) have always existed. What changed? Did they suddenly discover Putin is not trustworthy to depend on for half of your energy supply?

Never mind that they live right next door to the most active user of nuclear power in Europe France. So likelihood of a nuclear accident not affecting them is close to zero.

Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#22

Post by k__ »

Traster wrote: post #12

I know this article isn't great, but is there anyone on HN who lives in Germany who could explain why there's such a scepticism of Nuclear power there? I'm from the UK and we have largely transitioned away from Nuclear for one clear reason - there was no political appetite to spend a tonne of money on an expensive form of energy that wasn't likely to pay off in the current parliamentary term. The german response to N…

After the Fukushima catastrophe, it was clear that the unknown unknows are worse than anticipated.

Sad thing is, Germany should have pumped a whole lotta more money into renewables and their research.

Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#24

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Traster wrote: post #12

I know this article isn't great, but is there anyone on HN who lives in Germany who could explain why there's such a scepticism of Nuclear power there? I'm from the UK and we have largely transitioned away from Nuclear for one clear reason - there was no political appetite to spend a tonne of money on an expensive form of energy that wasn't likely to pay off in the current parliamentary term. The german response to N…

We sat on our arses too long and essentially our skills for producing nuclear faded away and now we need to rely on Japan and France if we want nuclear but it seems like we're out of the loop. I thought w had a couple of new nuclear facilities in progress, Sizewell C [0] and somewhere else (and plans are afoot for an experimental fusion reactor which is the most forward thinking I've seen in the UK in a decade so perhaps that's being driven by EDF? [as well??]).

[0] https://www.edfenergy.com/energy/nuclear-new-build-projects/...

Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#25

Post by guerrilla »

Traster wrote: post #12

I know this article isn't great, but is there anyone on HN who lives in Germany who could explain why there's such a scepticism of Nuclear power there? I'm from the UK and we have largely transitioned away from Nuclear for one clear reason - there was no political appetite to spend a tonne of money on an expensive form of energy that wasn't likely to pay off in the current parliamentary term. The german response to N…

Who stands to profit the most from decommissioning them all? I mean besides Schröder and Russia.

Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#26

Post by pbhjpbhj »

raymond_goo wrote: post #18
Traster wrote: post #12

I know this article isn't great, but is there anyone on HN who lives in Germany who could explain why there's such a scepticism of Nuclear power there? I'm from the UK and we have largely transitioned away from Nuclear for one clear reason - there was no political appetite to spend a tonne of money on an expensive form of energy that wasn't likely to pay off in the current parliamentary term. The german response to N…

We still have mushrooms that radiate more than normal due to Chernobyl. Then we witnessed the Fukushima catastrophe from afar but with great shock. And we have no state who wants to store the nuclear waste. We believe the future is renewables and we invest heavily into it.

The future is renewables but without storage (or fusion, which is realistically 40y out _if_ it works) then we're screwed and that's a couple of decades more development away. We need fission to bridge that gap or we're left relying on fossil fuels and missing our targets massively on GHG emissions (or we maintain Lockdown level restrictions .. and still have a short fall).

Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#27

Post by knbknb »

Traster wrote: post #12

I know this article isn't great, but is there anyone on HN who lives in Germany who could explain why there's such a scepticism of Nuclear power there? I'm from the UK and we have largely transitioned away from Nuclear for one clear reason - there was no political appetite to spend a tonne of money on an expensive form of energy that wasn't likely to pay off in the current parliamentary term. The german response to N…

Off the top of my head :

German multinationals (in the energy sector such as Siemens, Wintershall) have removed it from their strategies because Nuclear technologies inefficient and bear a lot of risks. New reactor types don't work as promised.

Government does not want Nuclear Energy because it needs enormous amounts of subsidies, and still there are regular cost overruns just as enormous. And Consortias still demand price guarantees. Worldwide the number of operational reactors is decreasing anyway. Nuclear reactors need a lot of protection (physical security) . Instead a decentralised infrastructure is envisioned.

The German general public does not want nuclear waste, and not even nuclear transports across the country. It's a form of NIMBYism, but the point is valid.

The German anti-nuclear movement is very old, covers 2-3 generations.

Germany is densely populated and the prospect of entire countries becoming inhabitable after a single disaster of a nuclear power plant is feared and despised by many people.

Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#28

Post by turbinerneiter »

Traster wrote: post #12

I know this article isn't great, but is there anyone on HN who lives in Germany who could explain why there's such a scepticism of Nuclear power there? I'm from the UK and we have largely transitioned away from Nuclear for one clear reason - there was no political appetite to spend a tonne of money on an expensive form of energy that wasn't likely to pay off in the current parliamentary term. The german response to N…

It's associated with waste that no one wants and nuclear weapons that no one wants either.

Germany had a SPD/Greens coalition. They decided to not renew the contracts with the nuclear power plants and phase them out (afaik they are allowed to run 25 years, then they need to renew that, sorry missing some vocubaulry here). The next government was CDU/FDP (Merkel 1), who decided to renew the contracts again and cancel the rpior government phase out plans. Couple of weeks later Fukushima happened. Merkel stood in front of parliament and said: "On a day like today, we can not say that nuclear power plants are safe. They are safe." That is a direct quote of her speech. In the de speech she annoinced that Germany will stop using nuclear power.

Because they had just signed the renewed contracts, the power plant companies sued Germany for the lost profit. Funnily enough, when Merkel decided to renew the contracts, they also introduced a tax on nuclear fuel, however the law had mistakes which made it unconstitutional and Germany had to pay back the taxes.

I still to this day believe that Schäuble messed up the law on purpose. It happened back during the economic crisis, when there were spending cuts on normal people stuff, and this tax was a part of the media circus of "the big corps also have to do their part". That first part is 100% fact, this last part is just my pet conspiracy theory tough :D

Re: Germany mulls extending nuclear plants' life-span

#29

Post by maxhille »

Traster wrote: post #12

I know this article isn't great, but is there anyone on HN who lives in Germany who could explain why there's such a scepticism of Nuclear power there? I'm from the UK and we have largely transitioned away from Nuclear for one clear reason - there was no political appetite to spend a tonne of money on an expensive form of energy that wasn't likely to pay off in the current parliamentary term. The german response to N…

German here, but I'll be a bit lazy and refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_Germany . I quickly skimmed over it and I think it touches the history well.

From my personal perspective, I can definitely relate being nuclear skeptic due to Chernobyl (I was 7 years old at the time) and basically constant demonstrations/problems with the end storage facility subject - for as long as I remember.

Also, at least in my memory around ~2000 it became clear that nuclear was not economically viable vs going green and that was also when the Atomausstieg was sealed by the new Schröder government which had the Greens in the coalition.

Merkel (conservative) wanted to prolong the run times but when Fukushima happened all those plans quickly turned over.

Happy to answer any questions about it.

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