Caltech's CS interview prep course • Hacker News Board

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#51

Post by gjm11 » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:43 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #29

analog31 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Symphonic musician. The first stage is nailing a blind audition, perfectly.

Not anymore! Blind auditions are now a thing of the past: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-audition... However, since you can't choose your parents or where you were born, there's little you can do to prepare for the Diversity, Inclusion, and Equity goals. (I could probably get a lift by changing my religion. People with the exact same ethnicity and appearance as me but of a different faith are con…

That article is behind the NYT paywall but the bit of it I could see appears to be saying not that

> blind auditions are now a thing of the past

but that they should become a thing of the past, so that orchestras can ensure that their makeup (race, gender, etc.) matches that of "the communities they serve".

There's a big difference between "one person writing in the New York Times thinks orchestras should stop doing blind auditions" and "blind auditions are now a thing of the past".

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#52

Post by closeparen » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:44 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #43

mherdeg wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this the Triplebyte model?

I thought Triplebyte just allows candidates to skip the tech screen step, the on-site can and does still include algo/ds questions depending on the interviewing company.

That’s more the way employers treat Triplebyte in practice, and it is probably how they would treat any similar attempt.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#53

Post by 10000truths » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:44 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

Why would you want a license? The whole allure of software development is in its accessibility, that it's easy to get started with nothing more than a laptop and an Internet connection. Putting up artificial barriers to entry is anathema to that. What you'll end up with, in practice, is one of two outcomes:

1. A race to the bottom where licenses become easier and easier to get, until it becomes no more a demonstration of competence than drivers' licenses are to one's driving skills.

2. Protectionist policies make licenses mandated and difficult to obtain, then the talent pool and innovation moves to places that don't require that license.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#54

Post by barry-cotter » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:44 PM UTC

mattkrause wrote: post #23

barry-cotter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Normal economic sectors without decades long explosive growth have some kind of licensing system to keep people out so that insiders make more money. Merely being able to teach, engineer or reason about the law taking into account precedent is not sufficient to get a license for it. In some cases this probably has some attached quality control implications but we know education degrees have no effect on teacher e…

I wonder how many “engineering” jobs actually require PE. Biotech is an another counterexample to this: there’s no licensing requirement (though many jobs do require a masters or PhD) and the interviews also (mostly) aren’t quiz show lunacy. You usually talk about your past work and answer questions about how you’d approach new problems; no one makes you (say) sketch crystal structures on the board or recite the Kreb…

You can get into software engineering completely self taught or after a (3-12 month) boot camp. If biotech was that open they’d have similar interviews checking for basic familiarity with the field. Must have a Master’s at minimum is very different from must pass an interview as a minimum hiring filter.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#55

Post by closeparen » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:45 PM UTC

NERD_ALERT wrote: post #45

amznbyebyebye wrote: post #22

So wait you are smart enough to get into caltech, smart enough to graduate with a degree in CS. And yet the curriculum on its own does not do a good job enough on its own to prepare you for getting a job? Very hard to graduate with a decent GPA in CS at caltech and not be able to thrive as an entry level engineer. If you got B’s in caltech CS I’d make you an offer for 200k+ without blinking or even asking you anythin…

Computer Science is not Software Engineering. A PhD does not translate to real world engineering skills. If you just go through a bachelors CS curriculum, designed to give a survey of all topics in academic computer science, that wouldn't make you a competent engineer. This is especially true now that through the internet, just about anyone with a laptop can get as good as they want at software engineering without ev…

That’s a fair point but the kind of interview this course is preparing you for is a CS test, not a practical software engineering test.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#56

Post by Apocryphon » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

closeparen wrote: post #47

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

“The standard” belies a lot of variation. Some interviewers want perfect code the first time on a whiteboard, some let you go back and forth with a compiler as much as you wish. Some interviews stick to relatively shallow algorithms knowledge like DFS, others will ask you two LC Hard questions in an hour. Sometimes it’s about whether you solved the problem, sometimes it’s about your thinking and collaboration during…

You're completely right, and this actually is another layer to the whiteboarding technical interviews are broken narrative: there are no objective standards, even if there is huge overlap in the content being interviewed from company to company (or even team to team). A very discouraging aspect about these interviews is that the rubric is completely hidden away from candidates and feedback is almost never provided. At least a licensure or certification test would be more transparent.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#57

Post by honksillet » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:46 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

As someone who is licensed in a different field, awful idea.

Each state tends to have their own (often quite different) license requirements. They tend to be expensive to get and need to be renewed frequently (more $$$). There are usually other hoops you have to jump through to get both license and relicensed. I would never wish licensure on my own profession.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#58

Post by gaoshan » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

I don't necessarily want someone with great algorithm test taking skills... such a cert would be of relatively minor value to me. A single data point out of many and not one with especially great weight. I want someone that can build stuff on time, using the tools our team uses, within budget and do all of this while being a collaborative, reasonable, not unpleasant person to work with.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#59

Post by Apocryphon » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:47 PM UTC

10000truths wrote: post #53

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

Why would you want a license? The whole allure of software development is in its accessibility, that it's easy to get started with nothing more than a laptop and an Internet connection. Putting up artificial barriers to entry is anathema to that. What you'll end up with, in practice, is one of two outcomes: 1. A race to the bottom where licenses become easier and easier to get, until it becomes no more a demonstratio…

By license I mean the current Leetcode interview process except you do it once and are good for at least five years. Obviously when candidates are interviewed there would still be technical questions asked, but perhaps those would be more domain-specific. The whole point is to avoid the redundancy of the existing interview process.

Re: Caltech's CS interview prep course

#60

Post by Apocryphon » Sun, Feb 27, 2022, 9:48 PM UTC

gaoshan wrote: post #58

Apocryphon wrote: post #28

Tech interview discussions always seem to run the same course and hit the same points, so I'll repeat one of mine: What's wrong with the idea of turning the standard Leetcode algorithms interview into a license that only needs to be completed once, or maybe once every 5-8 years, similar to what physicians must undergo? Much more efficient than having to retake it with every single company during an interview cycle.

I don't necessarily want someone with great algorithm test taking skills... such a cert would be of relatively minor value to me. A single data point out of many and not one with especially great weight. I want someone that can build stuff on time, using the tools our team uses, within budget and do all of this while being a collaborative, reasonable, not unpleasant person to work with.

Sure, and perhaps that means you're currently already not asking algorithm questions in your interviews. Meaning candidates grousing about Leetcode wouldn't have similar grievances interviewing with your company.