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Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

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Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#121

Post by astoor »

seibelj wrote: post #8

> In The Bitcoin Standard, Ammous blamed the Fed for the modern “breakdown of the family,” and for “perhaps most damagingly, the depletion of the soil of its nutrients, leading to ever-lower levels of nutrients in food.” He compared the art of the Renaissance, Classical, and Romantic periods, all financed properly with sound money, to the decadent culture of the twenty-first century, with its “animalistic noises’’ an…

This exhibits many of the classic signs you are in a cult - believing "crazy" things that non-cult-members would not believe, suspending rational thought processes and deferring to charismatic leader(s), and blaming objects of persecution for an unfeasibly wide range of issues (e.g. blaming the Fed for everything from the "breakdown of the family" to "the depletion of the soil of its nutrients").

The rest of the article exhibits many more classic indicators of cult membership - extreme obsessiveness with leader(s), any criticism or questioning characterized as persecution, special persecution of former members (Musk in the original article), denying it is a cult, etc.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#122

Post by Melio »

quickthrowman wrote: post #112
Hendrikto wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gold and silver coins are not fiat though.

Right, and basing the supply of currency on the amount of two metal elements we can mine out of the ground is insane .

It's part of history and not the only part of it.

From Wikipedia: "Government-issued fiat money banknotes were used first during the 11th century in China"

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#123

Post by dataangel »

horsawlarway wrote: post #71
kragen wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it turns out, moving money from one group to another† is pretty useful in modern society. It's really all that money is good for, after all. Some of my comments from the last week and a half about what Bitcoin is good for: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30469595 when your country's central bank suspends electronic cash transfers, suspends the foreign exchange market, limits cash withdrawals, and prohibits th…

I find you utterly un-compelling. And I say that as someone who has literally spent hundreds of bitcoin at one of the ONLY points in bitcoin's history when it was primarily used as a genuine medium of exchange (silk road). Simple example - show me a method of handling reconciliation of fraud/contract dispute for bitcoin that doesn't fall back on the legal systems of those government systems you're so happy to rail ag…

The fraud/contract mechanism that I remember seeing proposed years ago was always escrow (which BTC at least supports) and a third party arbiter.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#124

Post by horsawlarway »

Karrot_Kream wrote: post #107
horsawlarway wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you can find a contractor who will remodel your bathroom for gold (or god help them, bitcoin), or a food vendor who will take gold instead of your local currency (at an equivalent rate) then when you actually need goods and services, you convert to a local currency, which is taxed. In exchange for that taxation, you can write a contract that says "I will give you X gold for Y dollars" and expect the government…

> Unless you can find a contractor who will remodel your bathroom for gold (or god help them, bitcoin), or a food vendor who will take gold instead of your local currency (at an equivalent rate) then when you actually need goods and services, you convert to a local currency, which is taxed. I'm not sure if you've spent any time hanging around in the world of illegal immigrants, but in my family's circles, there _are_…

Sure - and this is where there is marginal use for value stores like this, but two thoughts

1. You are dealing with "family friends" who have a clear social connection (and reputation!), helping to mitigate the risk that they simply run off - not the case for sending digital coins to a person you've never met.

2. You are in a situation where you're choosing to avoid government enforcement because of legality issues (in this case, immigration status). This is also why bitcoin worked for dark markets - No one cared that the government wasn't going to enforce your bitcoin transaction, because that lack of enforcement was already a given based on the goods being traded (illegal/black market items)

In both of these cases - basically any asset can fill that role. Shiny metal, food, expensive clothing, jewelry, guns, drugs etc. Bitcoin is appealing for basically one reason alone - it weighs nothing (and as a side effect, can be digitally transferred). Since usually the limiting factor in barter is literally how much weight in goods you can drag away.

The problem, and this is genuinely where I become annoyed, is that the speculation the above poster is so happy about actually degrades the usefulness of bitcoin in this space. No one wants to hold an asset that might lose 25% of its value over night, and no one wants to spend a currency that might gain 25% of its value over night either. This run of "get rich quick" fools and "pump and dump" fan boys have been a plague on the usefulness of digital coins since people realized bitcoin shot up in price any time the media mentioned it, way back in 2012. Then they harp on and on about how digital coins are the next finance, without understanding the current system, because their incentives aren't aligned with actually using the thing as a currency, they're entirely aligned with getting more suckers on board in their speculation scam.

So yes - if you're in the (very small) minority of folks who either won't or can't use governmental recourse anyways - there was at one point in time some usefulness for bitcoin. But unless you're planning on buying drugs or guns online, my current advice is to stick with gold.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#125

Post by landemva »

igorkraw wrote: post #81
once_inc wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are actually quite a few companies doing things with bitcoin that generate revenue. Bitcoin isn't supposed to make you money; it's supposed to be money. Dollars on their own don't generate revenue, nor is gold locked in a safe. Bitcoin has qualities that make it better than fiat and better than gold, at the cost of an established history. Perhaps the author just spoke to the wrong people, didn't get the fundame…

Show me one company that "does things with bitcoin" that 1. does things which aren't already solved for cheaper using standard finance (for example, splitwise makes splitting bills easier, there are disposable credit card solutions, within crypto multi-sig accounts for the masses could be one idea) 2. is not just enabling other people to do something with crypto or building out the "doing something with crypto" capab…

In my experience in usa it is cheaper and easier to buy real estate with btc. Can still use closing company, if you want to pay those fees. This is just starting, and your tastes may vary. It's nice to have choice.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#126

Post by landemva »

kragen wrote: post #49
wmf wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the point of Bitcoin precisely that it naturally becomes more and more valuable? If people want money that doesn't make money they can use stablecoins.

I certainly hope not! That's what the article's author was hoping for, but presumably Bitcoin will reach a long-term stable price level at some point. Maybe it already has, or did two years ago when it was at US$8000, or maybe at some point it will rapidly fall to $0 as investors switch to Ether or Grin or ZCash or whatever is popular ten years from now. Its volatility unfortunately appeals to get-rich-quick speculat…

DAI is a stablecoin not relying upon off-chain backing.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#127

Post by igorkraw »

landemva wrote: post #125
igorkraw wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me one company that "does things with bitcoin" that 1. does things which aren't already solved for cheaper using standard finance (for example, splitwise makes splitting bills easier, there are disposable credit card solutions, within crypto multi-sig accounts for the masses could be one idea) 2. is not just enabling other people to do something with crypto or building out the "doing something with crypto" capab…

In my experience in usa it is cheaper and easier to buy real estate with btc. Can still use closing company, if you want to pay those fees. This is just starting, and your tastes may vary. It's nice to have choice.

In Europe, we just have functioning wire transfers. Fails number 1

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#128

Post by landemva »

uoaei wrote: post #99
cdiddy2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well we are approaching half of americans having a chronic disease and a large part of that is from what we eat along with lack of exercise. it does seem like we have a degradation of the nutrients in our food supply as well. https://www.fightchronicdisease.org/sites/default/files/docs... https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/vanishing-...

Surely this is a problem of supply and not demand. If I go to Safeway and don't find something healthy, I will nevertheless buy something for the simple reason that I am hungry. Want healthier food in a society? Sell healthier food in a society. It's not the job of consumers, nor is there any reasonable communication channel, to dictate what is put on shelves. They can only provide feedback based on what is already t…

' It's not the job of consumers, nor is there any reasonable communication channel, to dictate what is put on shelves. '

In a free market the job of consumers is to use communication channel of purchases to signal what they want to have stocked on the shelves. Safeway stocks junk food because that is what people buy.

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#129

Post by antifa »

jmstfv wrote: post #118
uoaei wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukrainian army is provably infested with neo-Nazis. Right-libs gonna right-lib.

What the hell are you on about?!

It is a thing, there are pictures circulating about it, I don't know what conclusions you should draw, but it is something you can read more about.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/...

https://jewishunpacked.com/can-ukraine-have-a-nazi-problem-w...

Re: Cryptonomicon: Among the Bitcoin maximalists

#130

Post by landemva »

igorkraw wrote: post #127
landemva wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience in usa it is cheaper and easier to buy real estate with btc. Can still use closing company, if you want to pay those fees. This is just starting, and your tastes may vary. It's nice to have choice.

In Europe, we just have functioning wire transfers. Fails number 1

In USA closing companies use certified checks. BTC is cheaper and faster than literally having the closing company clerk drive certified checks to various banks.

You don't have to use it, though it works well in some situations and very well in big transactions. But you must be in a position to pay the entire purchase price and not rely on fractional reserve lenders to provide the funds to purchase the property. Since I don't need lenders, why would I use the structures that are in place to protect the lenders?

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