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Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

justice.gov

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Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#141

Post by astoor »

TheFreim wrote: post #81
astoor wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plausible deniability is one of ways the cryptocurrency schemes have continued for so long without collapsing - members can convince themselves that Bitcoin/Ethereum/etc. aren't ponzi/pyramid schemes because they "do something". Furthermore, that "something" can keep changing over time (e.g. for Ethereum it was first ICOs and DApps, currently it is NFTs and DeFi, and in future likely to be something else), which keep…

> Furthermore, that "something" can keep changing over time I don't follow. DApps didn't change to nfts, did they? I'm pretty sure they still are used and developed.

No, DApps didn't change into NFTs, and yes, DApps and ICOs still exist. But DApps and ICOs are not the current "revolutionary" "game changing" drivers for "line goes up" in the Ethereum world. Similarly I'd expect NFTs and DeFi to continue to exist after whatever supersedes them as the main attraction to draw in new members. Just like there are still people who talk about Bitcoin as "electronic cash" even though most have moved on to other narratives like "digital gold". That is the evolving self-sustainability aspect of plausible deniability. The schemes are flexible enough for existing scheme members to claim they are whatever they need to be to continue drawing in those all-important new scheme members, although most likely only for a finite period of time.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#142

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

kosasbest wrote: post #63

Why do people trust middlemen to handle their crypto in a safe manner? The whole idea behind crypto is that it's decentralized. Interacting with exchanges, investment platforms, etc is asking for trouble. Assume any exchange is another MtGox waiting to happen. Assume you no longer own your funds once you interact with any crypto platform. Fraud is rampant in the crypto scene and has been since the beginning. And for…

While I agree with the premise of not leaving crypto in online wallets, at this point it's absurd to think you can interact with crypto without interacting with exchanges. Very, very, very few people are paid in crypto, and still very few (legitimate) merchants actually accepts crypto as the final form of payment for goods, so if you actually want to use crypto as, you know, money, at some point you'll be dealing with an exchange.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#143

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

BbzzbB wrote: post #116
5350-uiop-1130 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there is that expression, morality is how people think the world _should_ be, economics is the reality of how it _really_ is the problem = lack of investment options, stagnant wages, inflating cost of living, being priced out solution = gambling on crypto and making some money speaking as a millenial. honestly crypto is the only way could ever dream of buying a house. ive been working 15 years and saved 150k. average…

Everything is inflated and has been bid up. Cryptos are certainly no exception, it's only gotten worse in the last two years with all the FOMO they fostered and salesman that gathered to profit off my disillusioned generation. To each their own, but I think the idea that TINA to crypto is plain silly, yet I know more people (am millennial) owning crypto than stocks, always with this notion that TINA. At least with st…

yes, crypto is inflated, and a pump and dump, but there is opportunity there, and hope. and that is what most retail are buying.

i mean something changed in the stock market after 2008. i'm not really educated enough in finance, but it seems the value of stocks just went vertical. and since the covid pandemic everything has doubled in value. i know its related to decrease in value of usd but since my salary doesnt even increase to match inflation so its the same both ways.

if i invest in stocks, at best i will get 2x after 5 years, at worst i will be buying at the peak of the everything bubble.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#144

Post by na85 »

i67vw3 wrote: post #107
samarama wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you’re just a troll without any carefully researched knowledge.

Most of them know what exactly cryptocurrencies/blockchain are in detail. But usually the negativity comes 'muh climate change' while having 100x carbon footprint than an average individual let's say in El Salvador. Other point is that a lot of these folks dislike what cryptocurrencies are used for like decentralization, censorship-resistance, financial privacy etc Then there are those who are still butthurt that the…

Then there are those of us who think crypto has lots of theoretical but no actual advantages over cash, while also carrying lots of additional risk.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#145

Post by PragmaticPulp »

dcolkitt wrote: post #138
NelsonMinar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency is the solution for a very valuable problem. How do you commit financial crimes and frauds in a way just new enough to confuse people that what you're doing may be valuable?

Keep in mind that "financial crimes" can mean very different things to very different regimes. In Nazi Germany, it was a "financial crime" for Jews to take any wealth with them when they emigrated.

This idea that cryptocurrency is good because it enables “good” crimes (avoiding unjust oppressive governments) is at odds with the hard facts that cryptocurrency is used for “bad” crimes far more often. Many orders of magnitude more often, in fact.

I just can’t buy into these arguments that we should be overlooking these rampant frauds and crimes (like the multi-billion fraud in this article and many more like it) because it might hypothetically enable some oppressed people somewhere in the world to escape some government oppression.

In these hypothetical scenarios, are we supposed to believe that the oppressive governments would just look the other way and let people transfer their wealth into crypto exchanges before fleeing? That would defeat the purpose of the government restrictions, so obviously not. Or are we supposed to believe that they moved all of their wealth into crypto and took it out of exchanges and into private wallets before the oppression? The crypto maximalists would love that because it would drive up crypto prices, but it’s not practical in a world where most people have their weath in assets like houses, cars, and diversified investments.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#146

Post by pricees »

colechristensen wrote: post #99
pricees wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to donate to a cause that Justin Trudeau finds "unacceptable." I want to send money to Ukraine. I think this week we saw problems with tradfi in the developed and developing world. And of course in the good ole US of A, I hear stories of civil forfeiture every other month.

And how do you feel about economic sanctions for Russia, Putin, etc? (And crypto being a way to evade them) Do you think a cryptocurrency is any less susceptible to civil forfeiture than cash?

You are correct, evading economic sanctions is another problem crypto solves. :)

(I am not here to make any value judgments)

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#147

Post by TrapLord_Rhodo »

jmyeet wrote: post #26

Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen. Apart from the obvious issues (eg energy expenditure) the one myth that needs to die about crypto is that it is extragovernmental and indictments such as this and the Bitfinex laundering case recently should underline that. The simple fact is that the developed world could shut down what little utility cryptocurrencies (and NFTs) have tomor…

>Crypto may well be the biggest solution looking for a problem I've ever seen.

People don't understand crypto yet... play around with it a bit.

Things not possible in the current financial system:

- Participate in a crowdlown on polkadot.

- Play around in some DeFi. Earn yield on two assets.

- Store some files hyperlocally and encrypted on peoples laptop with filecoin. And learn how persistant indexing will help the internet be more resiliant.

- Sell some data using ZKsnarks.

- Query the blockchains persistance with the graph.

And if you don't do any of the above and you still hate crypto, just do this for your future self.

- Write a smart contract that sends some coins back to your wallet in 10 years.

If you're correct in your opinion, you get to make fun of all your friends who spent a percentage of their portfolio in the crypto space. And joke about how they should have cashed out in 2020.

But if you're wrong, you have missed the technological innovation of your generation and the potential to shake up the class system.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#148

Post by xiphias2 »

space_rock wrote: post #76
helsinkiandrew wrote: post #67

Interesting that there is no mention that he has been charged of being involved in a Ponzi scheme in the headline - just "Cryptocurrency Scheme".

Is there a cryptocurrency token sale that's not designed to defraud the buyers?

Yes, Blockstream has a token that represents Bitcoin miner shares.

The most important thing is to wait until the token is registered by SEC, so far all scam tokens skipped that step.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#149

Post by xiphias2 »

space_rock wrote: post #105
capableweb wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a couple of "token sales" (they don't call them that) that only allowed accredited investors to invest, and had their "token sales" registered with the SEC before they went live with them. If those were designed to defraud the investors, I'm pretty sure SEC would go after those first.

Yep. It comes down to information asymmetry. Harder to trick and scam accredited investors Most token sales make good money with very low effort scams

Sadly a lot of token sales were pump and dumps through VCs, so even this is not true. SEC registering looks like a better filter for now.

Re: Bitconnect founder indicted in global $2.4B cryptocurrency scheme

#150

Post by [deleted] »

dcolkitt wrote: post #138
NelsonMinar wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cryptocurrency is the solution for a very valuable problem. How do you commit financial crimes and frauds in a way just new enough to confuse people that what you're doing may be valuable?

Keep in mind that "financial crimes" can mean very different things to very different regimes. In Nazi Germany, it was a "financial crime" for Jews to take any wealth with them when they emigrated.

[deleted]
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