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You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

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Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#151

Post by peterburkimsher »

XorNot wrote: post #113
WJW wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> this would imply that the most under-investigated-in-industry approaches to deep hole boring would be the ones that destroy the economic value of any oil-and-gas in the ground, That is only one explanation to why a technology would be among the most under-investigated-in-industry approaches. There are many others, such as: - It does not work at all. - It is more expensive than traditional methods - It is illegal in…

Option C: it doesn't solve enough problems for oil and gas to have been worth pursuing compared to iterative improvements to existing systems. Whereas for geothermal, conventional drilling isn't useful enough for it.

Oil companies sell finite fuel for energy to people in cars, on the move.

Geothermal heating provides unlimited fuel for people in houses, staying still.

The technology is similar, and it's boring ;-) The market is different. This is an opportunity for entrepreneurs to hire expert drilling engineers out of the oil industry!

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#152

Post by ineedasername »

Whenever the topic comes up, it always seems strange that going more than just a handful of mi/km down is an incredibly difficult task.

Because it makes me realize-- or remember-- that the most life-hostile & technology-defying environments aren't in far off geographic locations or far out in space, they're a constant presence just under my feet. A shorter distance from me right now than I travel in my daily commute.

That as space enthusiasts (rightfully) speculate or plan the future above our heads, there are incredible things going on beneath our feet at forces and temperatures that also produce very exotic materials and even the prospect of untapped clean energy just a short distance away from every single place in the planet. (Assuming that drilling down for geothermal power isn't horrible for the environment?)

Just another example of how very little in the natural world is truly mundane and there are incredible things everywhere.

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#153

Post by totetsu »

Joeri wrote: post #80
anonporridge wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the thought for a while now that it might be a good idea to start changing the climate change narrative to a problem of planetary heat engineering, not simply a problem of GHG reduction. The current narrative is largely defeatist and regressive. It's largely about rolling back growth and the amount of energy civilization has harnessed. But if the narrative was altered to be a heat engineering problem, then i…

Alright, I’ll try to pitch the counter argument. The current green movement narrative is the same it has always been: living within our means. The current fossil fuel driven economy is objectively unsustainable. Yes, you can geo-engineer your way out of the heat problem, but that doesn’t solve all the other problems resulting from unsustainable growth, and who knows what fresh problems this will create. What the gree…

I'm reminded of this story of how the Chicago River ended up being electrified.

https://www.npr.org/2021/02/09/965335352/from-electrifying-r...

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#154

Post by gumby »

anonporridge wrote: post #23
tinco wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct in that the earth core is really well insulated from the surface. So well that the light of the sun delivers an order of magnitude more energy per M2 to the Earth's surface. That information also answers your question, our problem isn't with the amount heat we produce, it's with how much of that solar radiation we trap in our atmosphere due to the green house effect of CO2 and similar gases. So yeah w…

I've had the thought for a while now that it might be a good idea to start changing the climate change narrative to a problem of planetary heat engineering, not simply a problem of GHG reduction. The current narrative is largely defeatist and regressive. It's largely about rolling back growth and the amount of energy civilization has harnessed. But if the narrative was altered to be a heat engineering problem, then i…

> GHG reduction

The fixation on GHG reduction is, as a friend of mine puts it, a suicide pact, simply reducing the second derivative. Unfortunately it's easy to understand and discuss, so that's where all the attention goes.

The issue of climate repair (and long term curation, unfortunately) seems to frighten lots of people. There are people working on it, but they are a small community.

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#155

Post by gumby »

> The problem is it has only been practical in volcanic regions or near the edges of tectonic plates, where cracks in the Earth's crust allow steam to form close to the surface like in Iceland or the geysers in California.

Incredibly, California has managed to kill its geysers. Apparently when Geyserville was settled there were puffs of steam coming out all over the place. Now the geothermal plant there injects wastewater into the rock and then drives its turbine with the steam that comes back.

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#156

Post by pards »

Joeri wrote: post #80
anonporridge wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had the thought for a while now that it might be a good idea to start changing the climate change narrative to a problem of planetary heat engineering, not simply a problem of GHG reduction. The current narrative is largely defeatist and regressive. It's largely about rolling back growth and the amount of energy civilization has harnessed. But if the narrative was altered to be a heat engineering problem, then i…

Alright, I’ll try to pitch the counter argument. The current green movement narrative is the same it has always been: living within our means. The current fossil fuel driven economy is objectively unsustainable. Yes, you can geo-engineer your way out of the heat problem, but that doesn’t solve all the other problems resulting from unsustainable growth, and who knows what fresh problems this will create. What the gree…

Watch "Don't look up"

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#157

Post by maxerickson »

anonporridge wrote: post #23
tinco wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct in that the earth core is really well insulated from the surface. So well that the light of the sun delivers an order of magnitude more energy per M2 to the Earth's surface. That information also answers your question, our problem isn't with the amount heat we produce, it's with how much of that solar radiation we trap in our atmosphere due to the green house effect of CO2 and similar gases. So yeah w…

I've had the thought for a while now that it might be a good idea to start changing the climate change narrative to a problem of planetary heat engineering, not simply a problem of GHG reduction. The current narrative is largely defeatist and regressive. It's largely about rolling back growth and the amount of energy civilization has harnessed. But if the narrative was altered to be a heat engineering problem, then i…

Insolation is on the order of 100 petawatts.

Human energy utilization is on the order of 20 terawatts, 0.02% of the power the sunlight that hits the atmosphere. Our energy utilization doesn't matter a lot.

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#158

Post by dpark »

NavinF wrote: post #124
hectormalot wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have one of those. The well is 170m deep. Took 2 guys about half a day to drill it, so that actually doesn’t seem excessive in terms of time required (mostly sand, no rock below my house).

I assume you mean “2 guys and some heavy equipment”? As a kid it took me a whole summer of on-and-off digging to make a 1 meter deep hole for fun.

Out of curiosity, what were you digging with? Unless you were digging with a toy sand shovel or making a very large hole, that seems like a very long time.

As a kid, my cousin, my sister, and myself were able to dig a hole deep enough for me to be completely inside in an hour or two using a post hole digger. (Yes, this is a very stupid idea.)

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#159

Post by tinco »

leoedin wrote: post #56
Animats wrote: post #45

Microwave drilling. It's a known thing at small scale.[1] If it can be done at larger scale, it ought to have other applications. Doing it downhole at the end of a long pipe string is going to be much harder than doing it in a factory. So why isn't this an industrial machining process already, like plasma cutting? GA Drilling was pushing plasma drilling back in 2018.[2] They're still pushing it, but not making holes.…

This could also have good use for ground source heat pumps - they're the most efficient, robust and consistent source of domestic heating we have, but require fairly deep (60m ish) boreholes. If digging could be quicker, easier or faster these heat pumps could be installed everywhere.

A 60m borehole is not a source of energy, it is a store of energy. It only makes sense if you can sink enough heat into it in the summer, to use that energy in the winter. Or vice versa in warmer climates.

Re: You can have geothermal power everywhere if you drill deep enough

#160

Post by hutzlibu »

eru wrote: post #143
hutzlibu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It seems unlikely that agricultural areas would care that much." Why would you think that? Because the peasants are all too stupid to notice an earthquake that damage their houses? Sure, fewer people would be affected, than in a dense city, but the problem solution of: out of sight, out of mind, is fascinating.

You know that you can earthquake proof buildings? Offer to do that plus a bit of extra money on top, and you'll find plenty of rural takers. Pick the cheapest bidder.

There surely are various solutions and it is also a solution to shift side effects to areas where fewer people are affected (and more easily compensated) - but the tone of that statement above was "who cares for rural areas" at least I read it like this, because why else would rural people not care about it?
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