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The underground economy of solitary confinement

themarshallproject.org

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Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#121

Post by [deleted] »

ROTMetro wrote: post #81
randomacct8162 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first two weeks were very difficult. You have to sort of mentally come to peace with the fact that you're shut in this tiny room and you can't leave. It feels very claustrophobic and if you're the type that has anxiety disorders you will probably have to ward off panic attacks. After the first two weeks, time started to slowly speed up, and the days all sort of blurred together. Thankfully I was able to get a new…

Also, at least where I was, this was EVERYONE's life (no just solitary) for a year due to COVID. Only with no legal protections, all constitutional requirements waived, because, you know, emergency, and totally not just because the staff were lazy and this allowed them to do zero work.

[deleted]

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#122

Post by jrumbut »

ROTMetro wrote: post #92

In the Feds, stamps are the unit of money. On our yard a book of 'compound' stamps was worth $8 of 'value' but it took a lot of work to keep them at that price. For a book you could get one dip of chew. I think is was two books for a 'square' of spice, a tiny sliver of paper enough to get you high. You would also need to include the price of an AA battery to use as your lighter to get high. Don't do drugs, but especi…

This is a fascinating post, thank you for sharing your experiences!

That coffee creamer and lemon juice cheesecake sounds interesting.

Do you still crave and/or make at home any of the weird food items you described?

Where did you store 5 pounds of cheese?

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#123

Post by goodpoint »

vkou wrote: post #102
ROTMetro wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, at least where I was, this was EVERYONE's life (no just solitary) for a year due to COVID. Only with no legal protections, all constitutional requirements waived, because, you know, emergency, and totally not just because the staff were lazy and this allowed them to do zero work.

Edit: My reading comprehension is very, very poor.

> you live an incredibly sheltered, out-of-touch life

This describes solitary confinement, in a sadly ironic way.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#124

Post by laurent92 »

buran77 wrote: post #116
randomacct8162 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "if that is allowed discrimination outside certain roles how can those people ever be expected back to society? Ofc, they are going to do more crime if it is their only realistic option for reasonable income." And you've found the answer to why the American judicial/prison-complex is a revolving door system. "Welcome to the Hotel California. You can check-out any time you like, But you can never leave!"

It's a method to exercise control over a large slice of the population and rob them of the means to challenge their position. I don't think too may see it necessarily as a fair measure that must be imposed on those people for the protection of them or others. On the other hand you have egregious cases where such a measure would completely make sense but is ignored because of larger interests. One of them is how EU pu…

But, are felons discriminated from most jobs in Europe? As an employer I’ve never checked the backgrounds, and I would be actually happy of giving someone a path upwards.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#125

Post by r00fus »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #17
Synaesthesia wrote: post #13

The US prison system is so brutal and things like solitary confinement, which is torture, totally normalised. We need to call attention to these things.

There's a video on YouTube of a prison warden who went into solitary for 48 hours. He said it was painful - but that, considering how violent some of the prisoners he had to hold were, he would still not rule out its use. It's not an ideal option in any way, but sometimes it's just the least-bad option. In my opinion, we should focus on overuse and abuse of solitary confinement, but elimination is not possible for so…

The overuse of solitary confinement is a symptom of a raging prison industrial complex that relies on political corruption/kickbacks and a national culture that thinks punishment is more valuable to society than rehabilitation.

One would need to alter both in order to resolve this. Given their interlocking/reinforcing nature, it seems infeasible without some kind of revolutionary change in US politics.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#126

Post by goodpoint »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #37
jopsen wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those guards belong in jail themselves... The guards are just the product of a system/culture.

Don't make apologies for people who choose torture and who chose to participate in said system / culture. It's a job; if they had morals they would quit, whistleblow, or punish colleagues for this behaviour. I can't believe the pay would be THAT good. There's clearly no adequate chain of command or repercussions for this crime.

The parent poster is not making an apology.

The unjust and cruel legal system and the behavior of people involved is all a product of society.

It's not just a couple of "bad apples".

And saying this does not give anybody a pass.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#127

Post by BbzzbB »

Dieselroar88 wrote: post #24

Did 20 months in federal for selling cannabis. Also spent time in solitary. Conditions are far worse than you could imagine. Also, many prisons are functionally solitary so the 4% number is way low. The economic networks in prisons are wild, and of course there are incentives for guards to participate. Not only are there massive number of cell phones in prisons, there are cell phones in solitary because the guards sm…

I assume they wouldn't put electronic outlets in solitary cells, so how did it work for phones? You'd get to use it for 3-5 hours before the battery runs out and then a guard swaps it for a charged one?

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#128

Post by t-writescode »

xapata wrote: post #111
t-writescode wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the spirit of this; but if I can’t say that to people making poverty wages and being trapped, I can’t say they to prison guards, either. Collectively and individually, the United States must “be better”, though.

> if I can’t say that to people making poverty wages and being trapped, I can’t say they to prison guards, either Indeed. I think the same for everyone. Poverty is not an excuse for brutality.

Agreed. I wasn't trying to excuse brutality, I don't think. I definitely need to spend more time on this series of thought about what maybe I would do in the circumstance - or what I should expect myself to do to live up to my own standard.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#129

Post by alistairSH »

randomacct8162 wrote: post #7
tokai wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do solitary confinement help in correcting illegal/bad/wrong behaviour among prisoners in your opinion? Seems to me that it can only breed resentment and detachment.

No, not at all. The thing I think most law-abiding/normal people don't understand about the types of people in prisons is that they are almost exclusively habitual offenders. Even in the US, which is heavily punitive instead of rehabilitative, you have to have run-ins with the law a number of times before you are sentenced to serve time, rather than probation or a halfway-house etc. From my experiences, ~90% of peopl…

The thing I think most law-abiding/normal people don't understand about the types of people in prisons is that they are almost exclusively habitual offenders.

While that is true, there are classes of crime that are automatic felonies with mandatory prison time. Things like assaulting a police officer. Which doesn't have to be throwing a punch - simply resisting handcuffs is sufficient for the felony assault charge if the officer is mad enough and friendly with the prosecutor.

Re: The underground economy of solitary confinement

#130

Post by tasty_freeze »

randomacct8162 wrote: post #32
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #27

What is the alternative to solitary confinement? There are some people who are a persistent threat and menace to others. There are 3 ways that society has dealt with them: Execution Banishment Imprisonment We are trying to do away with execution, so that is not a real alternative. Banishment really doesn't work in the modern, connected world. That leaves imprisonment. However, within prison, you also have a society,…

FWIW, I am not against the death penalty. It makes much more economic sense than life in prison (it costs ludicrous amounts of money to house prisoners per-annua) and as someone who has done prison time my personal opinion is I'd rather be killed than face the mental agony of living the rest of my days in there. I'm not sure why so many people are against it or think it's inhumane. I think it's a bit silly considerin…

One huge problem is it isn't applied fairly. Money and race shouldn't factor into sentencing, but they absolutely do.

"Economic sense" is a non-argument. Think how much money society would save if we tore down all the prisons and simply shot everyone found guilty of a crime.

Another argument in support of the death penalty is that is "brings closure" to the victims or the family of the victims. That is appalling to me. I completely understand why the victim('s family) would want to see the criminal die, but why stop there? What if the father of a rape/murder victim asked the court to allow him to strap down the criminal and let the father torture him for an afternoon. It would bring a lot of closure to the father, perhaps, but it doesn't mean society should allow it.

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