isn't St Petersburg like an easy target for surrounding countries if they wanted to pester Putin?
Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
91–100 of 317 posts
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#92It's like Russia was expecting to be able to conduct the largest aggressive conventional military operation in Europe since WW2 and not completely flip the apple cart of the global order.
In terms of troops and materiel deployed in the first few days, how does this compare to (either) Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam or Korea?
at it's peak both the USA and USSR committed approximately 100,000 military personnel to their respective occupations of Afghanistan. From reading a book about Vietnam/American war, at the peak the USA committed 500,000 military personnel to occupy South Vietnam, along with various other countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet%E2%80%93Afghan_War https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2016/07/06/...
presumably they've committed that or more than that to this operation since the navies are involved and it's easier logistically to get to
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2014/03/world/infographic-uk...
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, I bet they didn't count on losing the Champions League final. That's about the worst of impact so far.
Germany froze the Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline project. Russia has a ton of reserves, but this will hobble them economically once the reserves are drawn down. The UK and US are debating seizing property belonging to Putin's circle of supporters, which could be very precarious for him domestically. Protests are breaking out in St. Petersburg and Moscow, and videos are turning up of captured Russian soldiers saying they…
> captured Russian soldiers saying they didn't want to be part of the invasion
I am following the conflict very closely (due to having many friends and relatives on both sides). While there are some videos with what looks like Russian soldiers (some of whom look no older than 18-19, so they're definitely conscripts), I wouldn't say there have been very many of them, and what would you say in a similar situation? "Yes, I was happy to come along to free your country from the 'nazis'", and risk to be taken around the building and shot as you "attempted to escape"?
To be clear, I am 100% behind Ukraine.
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
You mean so far you've lived a peaceful life and were skeptical of joining NATO but now that you've seen what Russia did to Ukraine, you're tempted to share their fate?
Ukraine is not a member of Nato. Reconsider the logic in your line of thought.
Maybe you should reconsider your logic? Ukraine wasn't attacked because it's a NATO member, it was attacked because (among other things) it wanted to become NATO member. There isn't a process where you just submit your wish to become a member and the next day, voila, you're accepted! It's a long process and that's when you'll be most vulnerable to attack.
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#95Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even worse, when you invade someone who tried to join NATO, was given the same warning, didn't join NATO, and then was invaded anyway. Finland and Sweden should join now while Russia doesn't have the ability to invade (because their forces are busy in Ukraine).
Whether they join or not, Finland and Sweden better beef up their defenses, starting yesterday...
What are you talking about? Sweden placed patrolling troops in Gotland right when Russia increased their presence in the Baltic Sea during this buildup.
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#96At this point, being in NATO feels safer then not being.
No post body was provided.
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
This obviously has nothing to do with finances and everything to do with the fact that no one wants soldiers of two nuclear powers shooting guns at each other. This is the actual logic of nuclear weapons, and there is no going back to the world as it was before they existed.
It wouldn't be the first time two nuclear powers fought in a country bordering one of them. Chinese and American soldiers fought in Vietnam.
Russian and American military personnel (mainly, pilots in air-to-air combat) fought in North Korea, too.
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#98It's like Russia was expecting to be able to conduct the largest aggressive conventional military operation in Europe since WW2 and not completely flip the apple cart of the global order.
It's starting to look like Putin may have miscalculated here.
Really? He is fighting to have veto over who gets to join NATO. It will be a victory for him if he is able to freeze NATO membership to the current number.
Russian economy maybe be ruined for next decade or longer and most likely Putin will be dead or retired by then but he would be looked in Russia as the guy who keep Russia relevant.
Putin is embarrassing US and NATO by destroying Ukraine while they watch helplessly. I have utmost sympathy for Ukraine but where were the angry people when US attacked Iraq?
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#99As I wrote in another thread today, current EU and US leaders are asleep at the wheel. We have a different dynamic. Talking about sanctions looks almost pathetic. The analogy here is, you live in a community and one of your neighbors just lost it completely and is shooting and shelling another neighbor. Not to raise the hostilities...you scream at him he wont be invited anymore for the Christmas party and you will co…
> ... current EU and US leaders are asleep at the wheel. We have a different dynamic. Talking about sanctions looks almost pathetic.
Yes, but NATO clearly stating that they wouldn't intervene in Ukraine probably made events more predictable. Reducing the risk of escalation, and miscalculation.
Leaving Ukraine to fight on its own wasn't nice. But it's probably best NATO doesn't bluff too much.
Sanctions is probably not a solution, but it's a signal -- well, really it's the only thing that can be done.
Re: Finland or Sweden joining NATO would spark Russian response, Russia warns
#100Now is probably the only opportunity they will get. With much of Russia's army tied up in Ukraine they could join in secret overnight and in the morning the rest of NATO could land huge numbers of airborne reinforcements and the whole thing would be a fait accompli. The only response Putin could make would be to trigger WW3.
Making triggering WW3 his only remaining choice does not sound like a good idea
He's always got the option of just... not attacking.
Not being in NATO didn't save Ukraine. Letting Putin have Finland in order to avoid all-out war should not be an option for us.
To me, this feels a lot like Donetsk was Sudetenland, and the rest of Ukraine is the rest of Czechoslovakia. We need to not let Finland be Poland, where we declare war but just ineffectively do nothing. What we should be doing now is gearing up to defend the entire front, and helping Finland prepare as strongly as possible. Don't believe that it's going to be "peace in our time" after Ukraine. It won't be.