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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#961

Post by unclebucknasty »

calsy wrote: post #936
w0de0 wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not quite making any argument, to be honest - definitely not that HN is immune. Just idle observation - conversation :). I do see the spam propaganda, the obvious paid trolls, &tc. We both ignore them, I'm sure, and I ignored them in my comment. I was speaking more specifically of two types I encounter: - The fairly well spoken internet ideologues squirreling away strange rational arguments deep in esoteric threa…

What are you guys rambling on about? One look at my history clearly shows I'm not who you believe me to be. Im simply someone willing to listen to both sides of an argument. I deleted my comment because the collective madness of patriotism takes hold and your either 'with us or against us'. Any view you express that may run against the current narrative can be used against you.

We're not talking about you.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#962

Post by kobalsky »

jonyt wrote: post #827

I think the commenters here relying on a more robust response if Putin invades a NATO country are being overly optimistic. Let's be honest with ourselves and recognize that without the US NATO is no match for Russia. Fragmented, with small and outdated armed forces, the Russian army would quickly roll over any resistance. Can you imagine a Republican president committing US troops to the defence of Lithuania in the c…

> Putin has succeeded in undermining the international order. First, by getting someone like Trump elected

do you think can he hand pick the next US president or just sway the election towards one party?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#963

Post by aksss »

AussieWog93 wrote: post #898
aksss wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may get downvoted into oblivion for saying this, but -- I think it's wishful thinking to imagine soldiers will make the 'right' decision when the call comes. During the Tiananmen Square debacle/massacre, interviews with people there indicate that many/most never imagined the "people's" army would act against them - they were considered on the same side. Yet act against them they did. Similarly, I think you see some…

>During the Tiananmen Square debacle/massacre, interviews with people there indicate that many/most never imagined the "people's" army would act against them - they were considered on the same side. I don't think even Tiananmen is quite as cut-and-dry as you're making it out. There were at least half a dozen generals who risked execution to publicly oppose the attack, and many of the commanders instructed their soldi…

I’m merely relaying what I’ve heard from people who were there describe in interviews - that while they were protesting, they could not imagine the army turning on them, specifically underscoring the idea that this was the “people’s” army by brand or design, so we’re shocked when it happened. You’re saying there may have been incidents of insubordination - I wouldn’t doubt that, but not sure how it takes away from larger point. It’s evident that in the balance, the military did the job the ruling party asked them to do, in opposition to the lay people, not the other way around.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#964

Post by rmk »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #876
rmk wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being comfortable in your neighborhood is not a delusion, it's a core priority most nation states will be willing to go to war over. If you are American, then you will likely not understand this because America is blessed with wonderful location: it does not have to contend with dozens of possibly unfriendly neighbors bordering it, which is a luxury that Russia, China, and India do not have. They are huge landmasses…

I am not American. I am from Poland, and we've been attacked without a provocation from both the east and the west, multiple times across several centuries. We're worried about Russia with good reason. Since my nation was literally behind the Iron Curtain, I can assure you that Russia _has no right_ to invade neighbouring sovereign nations, no matter how "unsafe" they are feeling. Invading Ukraine is an attempt to ex…

I'm not saying Russia's actions are legal, morally right, or justified. Russia (or, for that matter, any authoritarian nation-state that's barely accountable to its own people) is a threat to all its neighbors. I'm only saying that a regional power that has traditionally been the hegemon will think this way.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#965

Post by hbarka »

mschuster91 wrote: post #912
KronisLV wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would also like to know this, because Germany being on Russia's side feels a bit... out of nowhere? A bit odd? Not something you'd expect. I mean, i can understand some controversy around the actions of Turkey because of a variety of reasons, but Germany?

German here. There are a multitude of reasons... forgive me all the German sources please, but I don't really have the time to dig up English sources of the same quality. First of all is the close history that the Social Democrats have with Russia, dating back to former Chancellor Willy Brandt and the Neue Ostpolitik, and renewed by the 1998-2006 former Chancellor Gerhard Schröder who initiated the Nord Stream 1 gas…

Thank you. As always, it’s a rare luxury to be able to get meaningful insights from this virtual community.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#966

Post by ajsnigrutin »

w0de0 wrote: post #822
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #639

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This development is a tactical prerequisite for besieging or attacking Kyiv. The exclusion zone covers the shortest route to the city from Belarus - the shortest route available to Russian forces. Most probably this + the area being relatively empty makes it easier to pass through. As a slav (balkans), chernobyl to me personally just represents the corruption and totaly failure of communism, where everything has to…

chernobyl to me personally just represents the corruption and total failure of communism Thank you for sharing this. It gives some weight and reality to what I claimed above: 'in the Slavic societies of post-Soviet eastern Europe - including Russians themselves - Chernobyl connotes the corruption and failure of the USSR.' I really cannot comprehend all the outrage at putin, when all the outraged countries literally h…

You are aware that after WW2, there were many wars, from korea and vietnam, to more recent ones, form iraq I&II, afghanistan, syria, libya etc.? If you forget about the balkan wars in the 1990s (because those were our, "internal" wars), the only other war here was the nato bombing of serbia (when i was born, we were still one country, yugoslavia), so the last outside agression in our places was caused by nato, ie. mostly americans.

Yeah, sure, propaganda, "protecting the freedom"... but whose freedom was USA protecting when they attacked afghanistan? Why did they even attack it? Look at iraq for example... and the "weapons of mass destruction", that were never to be found. Russians say that they're protecting their own minority in ukraine, but atleast they have a minority there, compared to nato, who couldn't even plant WMDs in iraq. In the end, we all know that it's for resources and war-strategic causes.

Both historically and statistically, we have more to be afraid of americans here, than from russians.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#967

Post by ant6n »

KronisLV wrote: post #869
hbarka wrote: post #824

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> member states like Germany would have vetoed [Ukraine’s bid for NATO membership] Why is this often mentioned? What is Germany’s rationale and is this still a certainty? Perhaps these comments were more closely related to Schröder (because gas pipeline) but certainly a different generation now. edit: France and Germany were the two opposed countries.

Would also like to know this, because Germany being on Russia's side feels a bit... out of nowhere? A bit odd? Not something you'd expect. I mean, i can understand some controversy around the actions of Turkey because of a variety of reasons, but Germany?

Germans have „historical responsibility“ towards Russia. (But not so much towards Ukraine, somehow although arguably WWII was pretty bad there too). Also dependence on natural gas.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#968

Post by rmk »

jrs235 wrote: post #357
rmk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so options are somewhat limited. Russia intends to use Chernobyl as a deterrent to NATO, according to the report (how, I do not know). It is also not straightforward to put a NATO ally right on Russia's vulnerable flank (it's endless plains and flat ground from Ukraine to Moscow, which has always been a source of strategic vulnerability for Moscow), so admitting Ukraine to NATO was ne…

This explains what you mention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 This guy nailed it 7 years ago!

Thank you for posting this every informative talk. What I've written essentially reflects this. The conclusion that Prof. Mearsheimer draws, that Ukraine will be forced to break up by Putin, seems to be the end game here.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#969

Post by dillondoyle »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #582
dillondoyle wrote: post #486

I'm very skeptical of the following question, but I found from a reputable reporter on Twitter, and seems like at least not an obvious fake website. But I don't see how this can be true... Anyone smarter than me care to alleviate the following concerns: Increased radiation. On this map some of the levels go from ~750 nsv/h to 10,200. one at the center went from 2,000 to 65,000 in the last day. seems crazy and inconce…

No, that actually seems extremely plausible. Thanks for posting actual numbers and units! Look at the units. That's NANOsieverts. So the old radiation level was ~2x of what https://xkcd.com/radiation/ lists as the normal background level. Which m akes sense, because most of Chernobyl really isn't that bad nowadays. The new level is 65 microsieverts per hour. That's notable, but not some huge release of radiation, and…

I just read that exact reason; Lots of tanks and movement kicking up top soil.

Scary situation all around even if radiation is like 999 on a list of 1000 top concerns.

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