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On the removal of Come Back Alive

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Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#61

Post by cloverich »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #12
tgv wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's self-defense. Or is that bad too?

We all know the final outcome of this. In the face of the overwhelming force Ukraine faces it seems to me any help we provide is just going to prolong the agony.

Depends on Russia's goals. From this other front page (lengthy) discussion[1], they posit Russia likely made a mistake if their goal is regime change. Insurgency's work, especially when they are legitimate. I expect if Ukraine forces survive, they would recieve long-term and well-financed backing indefinitely from the west. Now if Russia's goals are not regime change but just to destablize / make a mess, or even to just make a statement and leave (if that's politically viable? idk), different story.

[1]: https://acoup.blog/2022/02/25/miscellanea-understanding-the-...

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#62

Post by belter »

basisword wrote: post #35

Seems sensible. Private companies shouldn't be funding wars, particularly wars overseas from where they are based. The Ukrainian's need help but this should be coming from government's, not private citizens through a private foreign company. I feel like this shouldn't be controversial at all.

Is this the same Patreon?

https://www.patreon.com/GunWebsites

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#63

Post by jacquesm »

Sebb767 wrote: post #51
jacquesm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Well, from their point of view, a military pact with the explicit goal of keeping them under control has first taken their land and is now threatening to get even closer to their border and encircle them. Just take a look at the Cuban missile crisis to see how the US reacted in a comparable situation and in that case, the distance from the missiles to the capital was a lot longer. For Russia, this is more like the mi…

> Everyone thinks they're on the right side.

In this case that has been made pretty easy to see. Even large numbers of Russians agree with that.

> Now, obviously I think we (as in EU+US) are the good guys here, but it's quite clear that a lot of people were both very convinced and very wrong about this and I don't consider us unfailable.

Indeed. But this isn't the Cuban missile crisis (which was provoked by the USSR to begin with) and the Ukraine isn't anything like Cuba.

Note that Cuba was - in spite of everything - never actually invaded with the intent to occupy, and it's not as if the US couldn't have done that if they had wanted to do so.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#64

Post by kasey_junk »

jacquesm wrote: post #39
basisword wrote: post #35

Seems sensible. Private companies shouldn't be funding wars, particularly wars overseas from where they are based. The Ukrainian's need help but this should be coming from government's, not private citizens through a private foreign company. I feel like this shouldn't be controversial at all.

> The Ukrainian's need help but this should be coming from government's, not private citizens through a private foreign company. If you set yourself up as a payment gateway people will use you as a payment gateway. And what private citizens do with their money is up to them.

That might be a norm that the world _should_ have but it’s not one that actually exists currently.

We demand that payment gateways prevent fraud, prevent the sale of criminal or objectionable materials, prevent money laundering and prevent sending money to nations and individuals under sanction.

Having a policy of not supporting weapons purchases is on that spectrum. Just claiming people can do what they want with their money just isn’t true.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#65

Post by ejb999 »

basisword wrote: post #35

Seems sensible. Private companies shouldn't be funding wars, particularly wars overseas from where they are based. The Ukrainian's need help but this should be coming from government's, not private citizens through a private foreign company. I feel like this shouldn't be controversial at all.

You mean like for the 8 years when the same page was up, and Patreon never had a problem with it?

SO they were OK with it, until they suddenly decided when Russia ramped up the invasion - got it patreon, small invasions no problem big invasions, pull the rug.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#66

Post by Uehreka »

jacquesm wrote: post #37
Sebb767 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> when in this specific situation violence is maybe not bad. I'm pretty sure Russia would say the same thing if you ask them about their situation. That's the problem once you bring in subjectivity. That being said, tolerating the account for a few more days would've probably been a better play. EDIT: Just to be very clear, I'm not condoning Russian aggression in any way. My point is that not funding a war is an acce…

Quoted post unavailable.

Yeah, I see this kind of sentiment everywhere these days. Just because people disagree about things doesn’t mean it’s a subjective issue you can just wash your hands of. Sometimes you just have to dive in, figure out who’s right (or less wrong) and hope your assessment is correct. It sucks if you’re the kind of person who wants to never be wrong, but the adult world is messy, we often can’t afford that luxury.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#67

Post by cloverich »

brabel wrote: post #49
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all know the final outcome of this. In the face of the overwhelming force Ukraine faces it seems to me any help we provide is just going to prolong the agony.

That's all I can think of... I just don't see an outcome where Ukraine receives so much support from the West that it will manage to beat Russia and make it go home without accomplishing any of its goals.... people seem to think that's a possible outcome. I wonder why when Kiev seems to already be surrounded and the USA government (who was right about warning about an imminent invasion!) has already said (correct me…

Consider both the US and Russia eventually left Afghanistan.

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#69

Post by syshum »

basisword wrote: post #59
syshum wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it should be controversial, and I do not think people should just proclaim "let the government handle it", that is very dangerous idea and one that is getting us in to more and more problems The people are the government, when we loose sight of that we have problems. Clearly the governments around the world are unwilling to help

Then go out and protest your government to make the decision you believe is right.

I would but then i would be labeled an "insurrectionist" and possibly have my ability to transact in the every day life removed...

the US, Canada, and most of the "West" is trying very hard to make Liberty and freedom protest illegal, you can only protest some topics, and some actions by government and only with the approval of government that your protesting is OK

Re: On the removal of Come Back Alive

#70

Post by squarefoot »

tomerv wrote: post #21

Direct link to Patreon's statement: https://blog.patreon.com/on-the-removal-of-come-back-alive

They have a valid point in not wanting to be used for funding military support, however the way they express concern for the safety of Ukrainian people without criticizing or even taking distance from Putin and the Russian invasion looks quite strange to me. Ukraine wasn't hit by a tornado or an earthquake; there's people behind the invasion, and Patreon seem to ignore that. Expressing disapproval against people behind the facts, and not merely the facts, is important.
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