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Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

universityofcalifornia.edu

431–440 of 464 posts

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#431

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Grilling is _under_ a hot surface. Like broiling. But when you broil you use a different pan. Or something. Now if you want a really weird distinction: baking and roasting. Same appliance, much more similar temperatures than you might think, often only subtly different prep. You might think, no, you "bake" things that rise or are transformed by the process, like dough. But you might also "bake" potatoes and fish. Or…

> Grilling is _under_ a hot surface. Absolutely not. Grilling is on top of a hot surface, often underneath the open atmosphere. The sky is not a hot surface.

This is another word disagreement then.

You mean grilling of the kind that is also done _outdoors_ there. Heating on wire above fire.

Like the Aussies we call it "barbecuing". They do it all the time; here it is understandably done very infrequently, and is generally known to reliably summon rain.

In a British kitchen, certainly domestically, what is called "grilling" does involve cooking on a wire grill, but invariably under a radiating heat element positioned above the food. In, like, 100% of cases.

With my gas cooker it's a separate (eye level) set of gas jets. In an electric cooker it's either a specific element mounted on the roof of the smaller top oven, or it's a use of only one of the two or more elements in that oven. But the grill is always above.

If we cook food in its own juices on an heated flat surface indoors, that would be a "griddle" or a "hot plate" -- that's what the commercial burger cooking machinery is called.

Essentially nobody has that equipment inside their homes; safety standards would tend not to allow it.

This is one of those things that shows that no nation owns the meaning of a word.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Grilling is _under_ a hot surface. Absolutely not. Grilling is on top of a hot surface, often underneath the open atmosphere. The sky is not a hot surface.

This is another word disagreement then. You mean grilling of the kind that is also done _outdoors_ there. Heating on wire above fire. Like the Aussies we call it "barbecuing". They do it all the time; here it is understandably done very infrequently, and is generally known to reliably summon rain. In a British kitchen, certainly domestically, what is called "grilling" does involve cooking on a wire grill, but invaria…

> If we cook food in its own juices on an heated flat surface indoors, that would be a "griddle" or a "hot plate" -- that's what the commercial burger cooking machinery is called.

To me a hot plate is a (small, portable) substitute for a stove, rather than being the device you use to cook the food, which would rest on top of the stove or hot plate. They are best known for being something college students can smuggle into dorm rooms.

I occasionally visit a fondue restaurant which offers, among other options, a "grill" for the meat course, and the grill is a griddle (a lightly curved slab of iron rested on a heat source) with no cover.

You also make me curious what you think of the George Foreman Grill, which as I understand it is a ridged, hinged, self-heating griddle that you fold around whatever hopefully-flat thing you want to grill. Almost exactly the same as a waffle iron, except it's a "grill" instead.

Anyway, outdoor grilling is certainly a part of American culture, but the American concept of a "grill" is not restricted to that, and clearly includes cooking on a griddle.

(To your earlier point, I tend to agree that there are many words that basically just mean "cook", and the particular word used is determined by convention according to the object being cooked. Bread is baked; beef is not baked, even if what you do to the beef is identical to what you do to the bread.)

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#433

Recommended viewing: Dr. Chris Knobbe - Diseases of Civilization: Are Seed Oil Excesses the Unifying Mechanism? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kGnfXXIKZM Here's a slide where he shows that soybean oil induces diabetes (in mice): https://youtu.be/7kGnfXXIKZM?t=2341 The talk makes the case on how it's also applicable to humans.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/no-need-to...

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29610056/

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was a common myth that the smoke point of an oil correlates with toxicity -- do you have a source that there is a causal relationship? The reason for olive oil not being used for deep frying is mostly taste and cost, as far as I know.

Smoke point refers to the temperature at which an oil will break down. You're right that broken-down oil is unhealthy but, more importantly, it makes for bad-tasting food and should be avoided when possible. https://www.masterclass.com/articles/cooking-oils-and-smoke-...

Yes, what I'm saying is I haven't seen evidence that change in the oil at smoke point is correlated with safety/toxicity.

Found the video: https://youtu.be/l_aFHrzSBrM

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is another word disagreement then. You mean grilling of the kind that is also done _outdoors_ there. Heating on wire above fire. Like the Aussies we call it "barbecuing". They do it all the time; here it is understandably done very infrequently, and is generally known to reliably summon rain. In a British kitchen, certainly domestically, what is called "grilling" does involve cooking on a wire grill, but invaria…

> If we cook food in its own juices on an heated flat surface indoors, that would be a "griddle" or a "hot plate" -- that's what the commercial burger cooking machinery is called. To me a hot plate is a (small, portable) substitute for a stove, rather than being the device you use to cook the food, which would rest on top of the stove or hot plate. They are best known for being something college students can smuggle…

> To me a hot plate is a (small, portable) substitute for a stove

Also that here too (or the plate of an old-style metal electric cooker). Portable hot plates are a thing again here but were out of favour for a good while, again due to electrical safety standards.

> You also make me curious what you think of the George Foreman Grill, which as I understand it is a ridged, hinged, self-heating griddle that you fold around whatever hopefully-flat thing you want to grill. Almost exactly the same as a waffle iron, except it's a "grill" instead.

I think in Europe and the UK we were kind of confused that the George Foreman Grill was such a big deal; we've had press-type grills like that over a long period, particularly as panini presses. But they've always been used to cook things like bacon. What makes the George Foreman Grill good is the quality of its construction.

When I was a student we relied on a toasted sandwich maker; like a smaller panini press, a bit like a waffle iron except designed to enclose, seal and cook a filling -- cheese and tomato, tuna etc. -- between two slices of bread. Genius invention but capable of heating cheese beyond what is allowed by physics. You definitely could cook other things in a toasted sandwich maker if you were OK with them coming out triangle-shaped.

This is making me hungry (and homesick for my vintage gas cooker, since where I am staying has a decidedly unimpressive early 90s electric cooker)

> (To your earlier point, I tend to agree that there are many words that basically just mean "cook", and the particular word used is determined by convention according to the object being cooked. Bread is baked; beef is not baked, even if what you do to the beef is identical to what you do to the bread.)

Right. It also occured to me last night that there are heritage/legacy aspects. e.g. perhaps "roasting" comes from cooking over open fire on a stick; we just now do it in an oven.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#436
post #174

The three oils/fat I have been taught to use in my Indian kitchen are: sesame seed oil, ghee and coconut oil. Sesame seed oil because it has a high smoke point. Ditto with ghee. The choice of oils always has to do with smoke point and hence what we use it for in the kitchen. [..] Sesame oil is full of antioxidants. Along with vitamin E and phytosterols, it contains lignans, sesamol, and sesaminol. These compounds hel…

> It’s actually harmful to use it for frying etc. Claims like this are BS. South italian here. People from south italy have traditionally produced and used olive oil pretty much exclusively and for pretty much everything. Frying stuff is a huge part of the tradition. No relevant problem ever found regarding that. On the contrary: the mediterranean diet is a well known healthy diet.

Tradition doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good. I agree though, olive oil may not be the best oil to fry with but I don’t think it’s harmful. If you’re cooking Indian cuisine it’s probably a bit of a waste though.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I have never heard a biologist refer to a change in gene expression as a genetic change. The latter usually refers to a mutation.

And the paper itself makes it clear, it's even in the title- it's the press release that tried to "simplify" it to the point of being confusing. https://academic.oup.com/endo/advance-article/doi/10.1210/en...

By the article's standard, breathing air produces genetic changes :D

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#438

It's nice to see the anti seed oil discourse ramping up lately, but I'm sort of pessimistic about this. Like what is the endgame, exactly? Seed oils are in basically everything. Trying to avoid them is like trying to avoid endocrine disruptors by not touching plastic or eating anything that has touched plastic. It's sort of an absurd thing to even attempt, it would drive you insane.

I don't understand what you mean. Seed oils aren't in most things; if seed oil is in even half the food you eat, your diet is likely appalling. I'm pretty sure I haven't eaten seed oil in at least a few months. I mean yeah if you're eating Doritos, sure, but it's really not that hard to cook from whole foods.

Plastic is much harder to avoid; not even remotely close I'd say.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The goal is to educate humanity so that we can start making more conscious decisions I don't think you can educate your way out of economies of scale that make it cheap to feed people garbage. The only real solution would be to declare PUFA as unfit for human consumption but that won't happen obviously Besides, many people really will just eat whatever crispy oily sugary slop has the shiniest packaging. It is unplea…

> Like think of how more than 2/3 american adults are overweight. Why? Because they literally can't stop picking up food with their hands, putting it into their mouths, and chewing and swallowing it. All you have to do to not be fat is to instruct your fleshsuit to stop picking things up and placing them in your mouth. Calories cannot legally enter your body without your consent. And yet 2/3 adults are overweight. So…

>Do you think the average American's willpower has radically plummeted since the 70s? And the rest of the developed world nosedived with them?

That, and how much they exercise? Yes, absolutely I believe that. The signs are all there.

Re: Soybean oil affects hypothalamus, causes genetic changes in mice: study (2020)

#440
post #39

> The same UC Riverside research team found in 2015 that soybean oil induces obesity, diabetes, insulin resistance, and fatty liver in mice. Then in a 2017 study, the same group learned that if soybean oil is engineered to be low in linoleic acid, it induces less obesity and insulin resistance. > “The hypothalamus regulates body weight via your metabolism, maintains body temperature, is critical for reproduction and…

> Soybean oil I saw this video about seed oils a few months back.[1] Some of the information there tracked stuff I have been reading for a while. Decided to switch over completely to coconut oil and ghee (clarified butter). A comment on the video that matches my view on the subject: > If you want to be healthy just do the exact opposite of everything we were told about nutrition by mainstream experts for decades [1]…

Yep, it's weird how the "boomer" types who said to eat butter, steak and potatoes, ended up having healthier diets than almost anyone does today. Personally I just eat like an ancient Greek and leave it at that. They didn't have Doritos, so I can do without them too.
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