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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#811

Post by dragonwriter »

dragonwriter wrote: post #588
dghughes wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Every Russian general is born with the ambition of driving his tanks to the Atlantic Ocean. France may not like that. They're not in NATO. But they have nuclear weapons.

> France may not like that. They're not in NATO. Yes, they are, and have been since NATO was founded. From 1966-2009 they did not participated in the Integrated Military Command Structure, despite remaining fully in the alliance. They still don't participate in the Nuclear Planning Council, and their troops are not put under permanent UN command in peacetime.

> their troops are not put under permanent UN command in peacetime.

This should be “NATO command” not “UN command”.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#812

Post by rad_gruchalski »

bragr wrote: post #433
rad_gruchalski wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but somebody has to be in control and responsible for this site to ensure, among other things, no terrorists make off with radioactive material Please… Russians will just use it for their propaganda as a support to the claim that Ukraine was working on nuclear weapons.

That would be an awkward claim considering Ukraine _had_ nuclear weapons and gave them up to Russia in the 90s for guarantees about Ukraine's territorial integrity. Obviously that didn't work so well for Ukraine now

Awkward? That’s what Putin said before invasion. WMD and nuclear weapons.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#814

Post by randomsearch »

arisAlexis wrote: post #780
trhway wrote: post #745

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While NATO takes all the spotlight, a very major real issue for Russia is that Ukraine started to develop significant partnerships, including military, with Turkey, a centuries old major enemy and competitor of Russia. Turkey has tremendously grown its power in the region in the recent decade (in not a small part because of its very successful drone program). Turkey was a military partner of Georgia back in 2008, tho…

What are you talking about? Turkey is a good weapons customer of Russia and Putin and Erdogan continuously profess their mutual respect.

You’re both correct - Turkey is playing both sides.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#815

Post by grayfaced »

jacobr1 wrote: post #546
CPLX wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean the line for action lies in the NATO treaty. NATO is not a philosophical concept it’s literally the outgrowth of written documents with the power of law. The T stands for treaty. The line is the borders of the NATO countries. I don’t think it’s particularly controversial that if someone drove a tank into Poland offensively it would be promptly incinerated.

I think the question is how does that escalate. If Putin is just taunting NATO with a few tanks crossing the border, and artillery takes out the tanks, that might be the end of it. But at want point does a broader escalation turn into a total war ... which bring in the nukes?

NATO clearly answers this, No First Use. Individual countries can deploy though. US says no first use except in response to WMDs (so bioweapons or chemical weapons).

By clearly defining it, it makes it less likely to escalate to accidental MAD. We know the line, Russia knows the line. And they know the potential consequences should they choose to cross it.

On the other hand Russia has recently been opening their doctrine to allow nuclear strikes in response to conventional attacks. Further they threaten nuclear responses. They're intentionally blurring the lines because they feel they can get away shenanigans in the confusion.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#816

Post by skrebbel »

deutschewelle wrote: post #741
nelblu wrote: post #545

This war makes me sick and very sad. It reminds me of the pale blue dot quote by Sagan : "Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot.". https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wupToqz1e2g

Quoted post unavailable.

> The reason being, purely from a military strategic thinking: Moscow simply cannot afford to have a vulnerable flank from the wide open fields of Ukraine and Belarus.

I don't know, my country has vulnerable flanks from wide open fields on all sides that aren't sea. Only if you start with the assumption that everybody not under your influence wants to destroy you, then your argument makes sense. But that assumption is insane. Russia had plenty time and encouragement to move the narrative from military talk to trade talk but unilaterally refused.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#817

Post by jesusofnazarath »

matkoniecz wrote: post #808
deutschewelle wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

> The reason being, purely from a military strategic thinking: Moscow simply cannot afford to have a vulnerable flank from the wide open fields of Ukraine and Belarus. Are you sure? What is the source of that belief? Russians? The same Russians that repeatedly claimed that Ukraine will not be invaded? They have nukes. Even if Germany would get back to WW II levels of aggression and army size then invading Russia woul…

No post body was provided.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#818

Post by scaramanga »

dudeinhawaii wrote: post #428

I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…

Oh yes, we should definitely be trying to escalate this situation between two nuclear superpowers /s

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#819

Post by A-Train »

scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #248
charliea0 wrote: post #119

The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. I think they've taken the nuclear plant because it is a defensible point along their shortest line of advance. They wouldn't want to move past it without controlling the site.

Also a great news bullet point in the information war. "Russian forces taking Chernobyl" sounds much more familiar and much more terrifying than "Russian forces taking Chernihiv region" to all of us unfamiliar with the country. Even if strategically realistically it's the latter that is more important than the former.

Not sure if it is more relevant when you immediately hear about increased radiation from the power plant.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#820

Post by scaramanga »

Gee, as a Brit, I'm sure glad we didn't elect any of those anti-nuclear nutbags into office as we've been watching this situation unfold with grim concern for the last 30 years as every opportunity we've had to deal with these issues has been not just ignored but dismissed by our leaders with utter contempt /s
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