Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fail to imagine how the reactor could practically be used as a weapon.
Scorched Earth. Ukraine decides the only tactic left is to deny its enemy use of the area++.
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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
451–460 of 1001 posts
Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#452Earlier quoted context omitted.
> America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. People don't want a 'world police' anymore.
The sanctions are extremely tough and not entirely painless for the US and other western countries. Also the US has delivered weapons to Ukraine. They don't want to engage in a war with Russia, and that decision I think is the right one for now. A couple years down the road, if the sanctions don't succeed in containing Putin's aggression, we might have a different discussion.
>A couple years down the road, if the sanctions don't succeed in containing Putin's aggression, we might have a different discussion.
Yeah well we tried that back in 2014 when it was the Crimean Penensula. I think its time we have that discussion NOW.
Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#453I can't really tell what's going on here. Is the EU and America supposed to be helping out but it's all promises without real counter attacks? Is this just the calm before the storm as russia places their troops in the right spots while everyone looks on? Anyone who's smarter than me who could enlighten me?
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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#454Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that's a good point but I also think it's important to remember that war suuucks . A citizen in Ukraine right now is not having a good day, there have been arbitrary arrests and some fighting in the streets... but if other military powers got involved they'd be having an even worse day with mass destruction of property and loss of life. Escalating a conflict to using deadly force can be a necessary step to pr…
That happened in the Spanish civil war. Guernica famous painting depicts the bombing by Italian and German aviation of the city of Guernica. The United Kingdom didn't wanted to be part of it, thou. Ironically, I think that more countries intervention would have make the Spanish war bloodier but it could have stopped World War II.
> but it could have stopped World War II.
The Spanish Civil War was definitely a component of WW2 but I don't see how it being resolved could possibly impact WW2 happening - if the Allies won the Spanish Civil war it's pretty unlikely they'd reinstate the democratically elected government anyways due to the red scare - you'd likely have a democratic-ish puppet government.
Fascism was also present next-door in Portugal (Salazar) and it didn't really have much impact at all on WW2.
Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#455Earlier quoted context omitted.
is this the same plant as the one from 1986? this plant is still active today? im very surprised.
The other three reactors there were operational until 2000.
Looks like they removed the fuel in 2013. That's good.
Huh, how often have nuclear reactors been in a theatre of war? Is this the first time?
Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#456Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Shutting down atomic power in Germany was such a brilliant move. What's done is done. Europe has enough wind potential to power the world [1]. Add solar [2], batteries, transmission, pumped hydro, remaining operational nuclear, and electrify everything (EVs, heat pumps, etc). Fill the remainder with LNG shipments from the US in the short term [3]. It's a national defense/security/sovereignty issue now to get off of…
I was/am pro-energy transition. But it's obvious that it was too fast too soon. Capability should have been built up before decommissioning.
Not destroying the German solar industry for shits and giggles would've been a good idea.
Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#457Hey, good news people, Switzerland is going to remain neutral and keep taking Russian money. And Germany doesn't want to stop Swift because they need sweet sweet natural gas from Russia
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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#458I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…
Tanks are weak on top so you fire a couple javelins at them. They're man portable, they lock on and then fly up and dive down to hit the vulnerable part. Pretty expensive but much less than a tank. There's plenty of other clever ways to take out a tank too. No one's launching nukes over a few tanks.
Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#459I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…
>I don't know that NATO has the guts to give Putin that bloody nose.
In 2018 during the course of a defensive action, the U.S. military massacred quite a few Russians.[0][1]
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Yeah, there's much more care and hesitation involved when the consequences are full-scale war, but nonetheless you'd better believe NATO would respond strong, including taking MAD right up to the line. It was Nixon and Kissinger after all, that invented Madman theory.
You bring up a good point, though: what if Putin suffers a conventional military defeat and has a break from reality, ordering launches? What then? I'm afraid the best we can hope for there is hesitation from their strategic rocket forces to carry out the order.
[0] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/24/world/middleeast/american...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khasham#Unofficial_R...
Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces
#460I'm genuinely curious at what point a bully threatening you with MAD can be stopped if you value the existence of your own civilization? Say Russian conquers all of Ukraine and moves troops to the Polish border and parks some tanks a bit inside. What then? Strongly worded essays? If Russia isn't raining hell on Poland, then NATO is forced to .. apply sanctions, make threats, but take no action since the escalation an…
Sorry, your hypothetical is just too far detached from reality to debate — you really think Russia in 2022 is remotely strong enough to sweep across Europe, and the only thing stopping that ambition is fear of MAD? Huh? > I don't know that NATO has the guts to give Putin that bloody nose. Again…what? Based on NATO’s military inaction re: Ukraine, you’ve concluded that NATO will also do nothing if Russia were to actua…
Every Russian general is born with the ambition of driving his tanks to the Atlantic Ocean. And that won't be much different from what Tsar Alexander did in 1812/1813 with similiar meager resources.
So yes, Putin probably is considering this scenario at least in his wet dreams...
And it seems like largest country in Europe (by area), with 200 thousand strong army, tons od most sophisticated NATO weapons and 8 years of combat experience have collpased like a house of cards within 24 hours. Do you think Polish or German army will do any better? Or does Russia have better opinion of these armies? So, yes this is possible now... Thereotically...
And history knows larger miscalculations...