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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#361

Post by toomuchtodo »

polotics wrote: post #359
toomuchtodo wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Shutting down atomic power in Germany was such a brilliant move. What's done is done. Europe has enough wind potential to power the world [1]. Add solar [2], batteries, transmission, pumped hydro, remaining operational nuclear, and electrify everything (EVs, heat pumps, etc). Fill the remainder with LNG shipments from the US in the short term [3]. It's a national defense/security/sovereignty issue now to get off of…

Europe does not have enough wind power potential to power the world, by a very large margin. To power France with wind, not just electricity but all energy needs including oil, natgas, etc... you would need one large windmill for every single square kilometer of the country...

Research paper with data to provide a citation for my assertion: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014... | https://doi.org/10.1016/j.enpol.2019.06.064

I confirmed it’s in SciHub if you want to grab a copy.

> The continuous development of onshore wind farms is an important feature of the European transition towards an energy system powered by distributed renewables and low-carbon resources. This study assesses and simulates potential for future onshore wind turbine installations throughout Europe. The study depicts, via maps, all the national and regional socio-technical restrictions and regulations for wind project development using spatial analysis conducted through GIS. The inputs for the analyses were based on an original dataset compiled from satellites and public databases relating to electricity, planning, and other dimensions. Taking into consideration socio-technical constraints, which restricts 54% of the combined land area in Europe, the study reveals a nameplate capacity of 52.5 TW of untapped onshore wind power potential in Europe - equivalent to 1 MW per 16 European citizens – a supply that would be sufficient to cover the global all-sector energy demand from now through to 2050. The study offers a more rigorous, multi-dimensional, and granular atlas of onshore wind energy development that can assist with future energy policy, research, and planning.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#362

Post by sonicggg »

TameAntelope wrote: post #234
sonicggg wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the reason though. Kosovo was not a part of NATO either. It's just that Russia is not Serbia.

Vietnam wasn't part of NATO either, I guess if we're just pointing things out.

No post body was provided.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#363

Post by sofixa »

squarefoot wrote: post #253
charliea0 wrote: post #119

The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. I think they've taken the nuclear plant because it is a defensible point along their shortest line of advance. They wouldn't want to move past it without controlling the site.

> The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. Yes, but although Putin is a bloody bastard, he's not stupid. His plan isn't to take entire control of Ukraine militarily but to swap the legit government with a puppet one he would control at will. Once he succeed, which is a matter of a few days, he'll gradually withdraw most of the forces, things will slowly return to normal and in a few years Ukr…

> His plan isn't to take entire control of Ukraine militarily but to swap the legit government with a puppet one he would control at will. Once he succeed, which is a matter of a few days,he'll gradually withdraw most of the forces, things will slowly return to normal and in a few years Ukraine will essentially (if not effectively) annex itself to Russia

I wouldn't be so certain. I don't think Ukrainians would just comply, many of them would fight against such a thing and would know the new regime is fake. Furthermore, Kyiv is a big city with peculiar geography. Urban fighting is hell, and if Ukraine decides to make a principled stand there it could take weeks of bloody fighting before it falls; and if Ukraine's government evacuates to Lviv in time, and continues the fight from there, it might result in a long struggle, regardless of who gets installed in Kyiv by Putin.

Oh and we don't know how the Russian public will react if the war gets to an urban bloodbath going for weeks or months.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#364

Post by rmk »

jakeinspace wrote: post #308
rmk wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's correct. You don't put missiles in range of a nuclear superpower's population centers and expect them to ignore it. But I feel that the timing of this is more related to Putin's political situation at home.

I keep seeing this being repeated, but the state of nuclear deterrence is very different than during the Cuban missile crisis. The US, UK, France, and Russia all have enough nuclear-armed subs sitting just outside of enemy waters to destroy every major target on both sides. The US doesn’t have nuclear weapons in Poland, nor does it need them. Russia cannot stop thousands of ICBMs and hundreds of sub-launched closer r…

You are talking about the military aspects. The political aspects matter too, and sometimes much more than the military aspects. Do you think the US would be content to let Russia place missiles on Cuban soil today? Why is China cagey about the US deploying THAAD on South Korean soil?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#365

Post by spywaregorilla »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #219
injb wrote: post #78

I think this is mainly a psychological move. It has people talking about nuclear fallout, radiation etc. That's the point.

Yeah the site is a massive liability for whoever controls it. There's a ton of work left to do to fully decommission it and make it safe.

What if, and bear with me, Russia doesn't care about safety?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#366

Post by EugeneOZ »

hutzlibu wrote: post #290
celticninja wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Putin is worried about loss of life of Ukrainian citizens. He is worried about losing soldiers, or more importantly dead soldiers being repatriated on the news. They will cover up civilian casualties or blame them on Ukrainian troops. The only support for this will come from Russia domestically and it is that which he seeks to maintain with this war. Which I'm guessing he hoped would be quick and decisi…

"I don't think Putin is worried about loss of life of Ukrainian citizens." Then he would just shell and flatten all the ukrainian cities. Russia has air superiority as far as I know.

Putin just wants to create another puppet-state, same as Belarus. He absolutely doesn't care about the lives of civilians, but ruining the infrastructure is not in his plans (only strategical infrastructure)

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#367

Post by whiddershins »

margalabargala wrote: post #263
pkaye wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia is who broke this agreement yet you are blaming the others?

It takes two things for an agreement like this to become worthless. The first is a violation of the agreement, which is what Russia is doing currently. The second is the lack of enforcement of the agreement against the above violator. If the other signatories enforced the agreement, then it would signal that the agreement is worthwhile, and other countries would be willing to enter into it. Yes, of course Russia is t…

This is true of all contracts.

Just because someone agrees to something in a contract doesn’t make it enforceable, and it’s even worse if the contract doesn’t specify what the consequences are for breaking it.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#368

Post by anothernewdude »

dragontamer wrote: post #353
drekipus wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unlike with the bombing of civilians or the whole damn war in the first place! Has this happened? Ukrainian civilians bombed?

Some Ukrainian Hospitals have been struck by artillery. No one knows if it was on purpose or not, but either way that's pretty bad since the world is still suffering from the COVID19 pandemic.

The Russian Hospital seeking missiles are famous since Syria.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#369

Post by EugeneOZ »

newuser94303 wrote: post #231
hwers wrote: post #21

I can't really tell what's going on here. Is the EU and America supposed to be helping out but it's all promises without real counter attacks? Is this just the calm before the storm as russia places their troops in the right spots while everyone looks on? Anyone who's smarter than me who could enlighten me?

The whole thing is very puzzling. Russia will take Ukraine but Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe. There is no way that Russia can conquer all of Europe. The West will not attack because Russia has nukes. The sanctions will eventually wear Russia down. What is the end game? Is he that confident that the West will just forgive and forget?

The end game is to receive another puppet-state close to Russia. It's the only target.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#370

Post by pertymcpert »

rmk wrote: post #70
hwers wrote: post #21

I can't really tell what's going on here. Is the EU and America supposed to be helping out but it's all promises without real counter attacks? Is this just the calm before the storm as russia places their troops in the right spots while everyone looks on? Anyone who's smarter than me who could enlighten me?

Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so options are somewhat limited. Russia intends to use Chernobyl as a deterrent to NATO, according to the report (how, I do not know). It is also not straightforward to put a NATO ally right on Russia's vulnerable flank (it's endless plains and flat ground from Ukraine to Moscow, which has always been a source of strategic vulnerability for Moscow), so admitting Ukraine to NATO was ne…

The fact that Germany was going to increase their dependence on Russian gas with NS2 instead of lowering it is despicable and incredibly short sighted. Same country which is going nuclear free. Complete morons.
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