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Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

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Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#331

Post by cdelsolar »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #16
stickfigure wrote: post #6

Is there any strategic significance to this? I thought it was closed?

It is actually deviously brilliant. No one wants to shell the area because it would release all the dust and radionuclides that were buried during the cleanup. It is a perfect staging area because the downside to attacking it is so high. No allied forces in Europe want to deal with the fallout - literally. This is so genius I'm genuinely in awe. This is right out of Sun Tzu: “The art of war teaches us to rely not on…

No post body was provided.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#332

Post by adrian_b »

jaywalk wrote: post #189
shawn-butler wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US makes empty promises. Read the Budapest memorandum in which we made security guarantees so Ukraine would give up its nuclear arsenal[0]. Russian aggression would certainly be much more calculated if Ukraine still had that capability. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...

> Ukraine had physical, but not operational, control. What could they have done, throw the unarmed nukes at Russia? You also leave out the fact that Russia and the UK signed as well.

When you have nuclear weapons in your possession, obviously you will not be able to discover how to detonate them in an hour or a day.

Nevertheless when you have the resources of a state, it is very easy to disassemble them and discover, in a few weeks or months at most, how to replace the part that initiates detonation with one that you control.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#333

Post by RC_ITR »

squarefoot wrote: post #253
charliea0 wrote: post #119

The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. I think they've taken the nuclear plant because it is a defensible point along their shortest line of advance. They wouldn't want to move past it without controlling the site.

> The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. Yes, but although Putin is a bloody bastard, he's not stupid. His plan isn't to take entire control of Ukraine militarily but to swap the legit government with a puppet one he would control at will. Once he succeed, which is a matter of a few days, he'll gradually withdraw most of the forces, things will slowly return to normal and in a few years Ukr…

That's such a straightforward narrative, but then why has no major power ever been able to annex and occupy an unwilling nation before?

Everywhere Russia has taken to date was already a separatist region, but I'm really racking my brain to think of times when a country 'just simply annexed' another area by force since the fall of the Raj.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#334

Post by giantg2 »

godmode2019 wrote: post #288
scyzoryk_xyz wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also a great news bullet point in the information war. "Russian forces taking Chernobyl" sounds much more familiar and much more terrifying than "Russian forces taking Chernihiv region" to all of us unfamiliar with the country. Even if strategically realistically it's the latter that is more important than the former.

It also has the following affect: """Don't the Russians already own Chernobyl? I guess it must not be in Russia. I saw a movie and I think they were speaking Russian. Wow they must be crazy actually entering a radiation zone, won't half of the troops die from exposure. I wouldn't want my son fighting those lunatics."""

I think it would be crazy for another reason - there is very little in that area that could be collateral damage, and there's not really anyone who is supposed to be in there. This should make it very easy to target forces in the exclusion zone.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#335

Post by wazoox »

rmk wrote: post #195
_puk wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary thing is if NATO decide to get involved, and it turns into war between NATO and Russia, then the security of the Baltic States plummets. Currently, as NATO members, they are not likely to be attacked, but if NATO declares war then that deterrent is gone. Hopefully not a likely scenario, but who knows.. There's been a lot of tension lately, especially with the likes of Belarus bussing migrants across the bor…

NATO is a defensive alliance, so there has to be a provocation for them to act.

Like in Libya in 2011? In Kosovo in 1999? This fairy tale has been dead for decades now.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#336

Post by giantg2 »

nine_k wrote: post #149
charliea0 wrote: post #119

The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. I think they've taken the nuclear plant because it is a defensible point along their shortest line of advance. They wouldn't want to move past it without controlling the site.

Also, either side would be pretty reluctant to bomb it, or otherwise battle too hard close to it. It's a great position to hold if you can.

They probably don't want to damage the structure itself, but the exclusion zone around it is quite large with little risk of collateral damage (possibly easier to engage).

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#337

Post by bombcar »

RC_ITR wrote: post #333
squarefoot wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. Yes, but although Putin is a bloody bastard, he's not stupid. His plan isn't to take entire control of Ukraine militarily but to swap the legit government with a puppet one he would control at will. Once he succeed, which is a matter of a few days, he'll gradually withdraw most of the forces, things will slowly return to normal and in a few years Ukr…

That's such a straightforward narrative, but then why has no major power ever been able to annex and occupy an unwilling nation before? Everywhere Russia has taken to date was already a separatist region, but I'm really racking my brain to think of times when a country 'just simply annexed' another area by force since the fall of the Raj.

Tibet?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#339

Post by jfengel »

bayesian_horse wrote: post #245
mvc wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So we wait until they're doing this in Poland? I think I've seen this one before. Doesn't end well for anyone involved. Better to hit an enemy when they're not expecting it.

The Russian people are already pretty angry with Putin over Ukraine. And they are going to be a lot angrier about the coming sanctions, then it doesn't really matter if they are angry with Putin or the west. There is no way Putin will say after this war "Thank you sir, may I have another?" He'll be hard pressed to keep financing his military...

Are they? I am sure that some are, but I get the impression that he has a fair bit of support from the country.

That might fade when/if the sanctions become serious, but thus far I have the impression that he's generally popular (if not as popular as rigged polls would suggest) for his hard-line stance against the US, NATO, and Europe.

Am I wrong about that?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#340

Post by hutzlibu »

selfhoster11 wrote: post #292
hutzlibu wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't think Putin is worried about loss of life of Ukrainian citizens." Then he would just shell and flatten all the ukrainian cities. Russia has air superiority as far as I know.

Every city he doesn't shell, is a city he doesn't have to rebuild. Roads and other pieces of infrastructure are valuable, no matter how old.

And every ukrainian with family ties to russias heartland that not dies, is one family less to worry about politically.
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