Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

311–320 of 1001 posts

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#311

Post by selfhoster11 »

rmk wrote: post #70
hwers wrote: post #21

I can't really tell what's going on here. Is the EU and America supposed to be helping out but it's all promises without real counter attacks? Is this just the calm before the storm as russia places their troops in the right spots while everyone looks on? Anyone who's smarter than me who could enlighten me?

Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so options are somewhat limited. Russia intends to use Chernobyl as a deterrent to NATO, according to the report (how, I do not know). It is also not straightforward to put a NATO ally right on Russia's vulnerable flank (it's endless plains and flat ground from Ukraine to Moscow, which has always been a source of strategic vulnerability for Moscow), so admitting Ukraine to NATO was ne…

> Russia were forced to shore up their vulnerable flank

Russia wasn't forced to do anything. They could've merely quietly dropped two of their delusions:

a) NATO was never going to attack them, unless it literally went crazy, or someone framed Russia so badly that a nuclear response was preferable to any other option. The West doesn't want to trigger a MAD scenario, and are keen to keep the post-WW2 peace and (in the case of the US) bomb less defended countries for their natural resources. Any claims or beliefs to the contrary are a projected reflection of their own priorities.

b) buffer zones outside of the neighborhood is getting more crowded. Big deal, if you are really so keen on a buffer zone, then maybe sacrifice a few square km out of the ABSOLUTELY MASSIVE part of the continent that they already control. Does that mean risking important areas? Oh noes. Security has a cost, so if you're not willing to pay for it, quit whining.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#312

Post by toomuchtodo »

krzat wrote: post #307
pkulak wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Holy crap, Europe needs to get off natural gas yesterday.

Shutting down atomic power in Germany was such a brilliant move.

> Shutting down atomic power in Germany was such a brilliant move.

What's done is done. Europe has enough wind potential to power the world [1]. Add solar [2], batteries, transmission, pumped hydro, remaining operational nuclear, and electrify everything (EVs, heat pumps, etc). Fill the remainder with LNG shipments from the US in the short term [3]. It's a national defense/security/sovereignty issue now to get off of Russian gas, and it should be treated as such with regards to allocation of resources to speed the effort.

[1] https://www.eea.europa.eu/publications/europes-onshore-and-o...

[2] https://www.euractiv.com/section/energy/news/solar-seen-clai...

[3] https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/europe-remains-top-d...

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#313

Post by labster »

pkulak wrote: post #259
squarefoot wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. Yes, but although Putin is a bloody bastard, he's not stupid. His plan isn't to take entire control of Ukraine militarily but to swap the legit government with a puppet one he would control at will. Once he succeed, which is a matter of a few days, he'll gradually withdraw most of the forces, things will slowly return to normal and in a few years Ukr…

Holy crap, Europe needs to get off natural gas yesterday.

As a disgruntled climate scientist, I think Europe needs to get off natural gas by 1990. It’s not as if the security benefits weren’t obvious when we all were buying from the Arab world, or the wider global security destabilization caused by climate change.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#314

Post by ajuc »

StillBored wrote: post #214
ajuc wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically Germany and Italy don't want it. Cause of big financial investment in Russian businesses. Germany especially should really do some soul-searching. They are enabling Putin for the last few decades.

And they have been stupidly playing politics and investing in "green energy" while buying ever more gas from Russia and shutting down their own energy independence. In the middle of the winter, economic sanctions have their hands basically tied. What is Europe going to do? Turn off the gas? I don't think so. Maybe at least France will stop D%#$ing around and finish their reactor. The only question is can Putin put do…

Green energy is fine, it actually reduces the total amount bought from Putin (and thus invested into Russian army). The problem was disabling the non-fossil-fuel baseload (meaning nuclear powerplants). It was criminally idiotic. I hope Germany finally wakes up because this is making the whole EU project look less and less feasible.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#315

Post by powersnail »

vanviegen wrote: post #272
pkaye wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. People don't want a 'world police' anymore.

What people are you talking about exactly? Those in Ukraine?

Ukraine hasn't requested any foreign military aid so far.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#316

Post by newuser94303 »

asdff wrote: post #17
madaxe_again wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two strategic points off the top of my head: One, the railhead. Afaik it’s operational and modern, as they used it for moving material for constructing the sarcophagus. Goes straight to Kiev. Makes for easy onwards transport of materiel from Belarus. Two, a gun to the head of Europe. They could threaten to destroy the containment, and/or to bomb the reactor building to aerosolise as much radioactive material as possi…

Why blow up a dirty bomb when they have 1000 real bombs?

They won't blow up Chernobyl. Ukraine is a top grain exporting nation. Without wheat, Ukraine's economy would be even worse and there would be no way to feed the people.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#317

Post by firebaze »

thow-58d4e8b wrote: post #105
BitwiseFool wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is actually deviously brilliant. No one wants to shell the area because it would release all the dust and radionuclides that were buried during the cleanup. It is a perfect staging area because the downside to attacking it is so high. No allied forces in Europe want to deal with the fallout - literally. This is so genius I'm genuinely in awe. This is right out of Sun Tzu: “The art of war teaches us to rely not on…

Chernobyl sarcophagus is a massive pile of concrete - basically indestructible. Buildings made of concrete are ridiculously resilient to explosions - remember the Beirut explosion? That grain silo right next to the epicenter was still standing Berlin has some flak towers from WW2, quoting Wikipedia: The Soviets, in their assault on Berlin, found it difficult to inflict significant damage on the flak towers, even with…

This is wrong on so many levels, it's almost right again.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#318

Post by ok_dad »

brabel wrote: post #220
hwers wrote: post #21

I can't really tell what's going on here. Is the EU and America supposed to be helping out but it's all promises without real counter attacks? Is this just the calm before the storm as russia places their troops in the right spots while everyone looks on? Anyone who's smarter than me who could enlighten me?

It's interesting that people think that when an enemy country (as most people in the west think of Russia) attacks a neutral country (after endless warnings and the ocupation of a sizable part of its territory several years prior, so it's not like this came out of the blue), that they should intervene as if they were the world police who decides who can attack who. Or some kind of righteous peace force who is above i…

I wish that your comment were taken better here (other than the "poking the bear" analogy; I don't agree Russia should have worried about the NATO alliance or taken it as a threat). No one should be rushing in to fight a war, we need to figure out how to make such things as this invasion impossible in the future, and figure out how to fight at a higher level than using violence and weaponry. Until humanity realizes that, even in the face of violence, violence is not the answer, we won't get anywhere, we'll just keep fighting. I feel for the Ukrainians, but I also feel for dozens of other groups of peoples all over the world who are oppressed or who have lost their independence (even some in the "enlightened" Western Democratic sphere), and I don't advocate war in those situations any more than here.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#319

Post by avidiax »

jjtheblunt wrote: post #217
avazhi wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

America will do nothing except 'strongly condemn' what's happening, just like the rest of the world. The simple fact is that there is no real upside to risking actual war with Russia - that the Russians will dominate the Ukraine while walking away with a bloody nose (in the form of minor troop losses of its own) is a foregone conclusion. Without more, that's a localised conflict that Russia rather hilariously can try…

I wonder how resolve would shift if Putin were to come down with a case of polonium poisoning, or other tricks from his own repertoire?

That would be a pretty terrible escalation in the spy game. There is an uneasy balance where government officials and their families are off limits for any physical harm. That means that CIA officials can live relatively peaceful lives just as FSB agents do.

If you let that genie out of the bottle, it better be a prelude to a winnable war, or you had better be happy to have all your government officials, diplomats, and their families on permanent lockdown.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#320

Post by firebaze »

stickfigure wrote: post #52
BitwiseFool wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is actually deviously brilliant. No one wants to shell the area because it would release all the dust and radionuclides that were buried during the cleanup. It is a perfect staging area because the downside to attacking it is so high. No allied forces in Europe want to deal with the fallout - literally. This is so genius I'm genuinely in awe. This is right out of Sun Tzu: “The art of war teaches us to rely not on…

If that is true, then every explosion contaminates the vehicles and personnel staged in the immediate vicinity. Doesn't sound so brilliant to me.

Russian military generally played wars with an assumed unit cost of approximately zero. They still appear to do so, despite the declining birth rate (there's a reason russian roulette is called as it is)
Post reply on HN