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An asteroid killed dinosaurs in spring, which might explain why mammals survived

arstechnica.com

41–50 of 87 posts

Re: An asteroid killed dinosaurs in spring, which might explain why mammals survived

#41
post #20

Another wildly speculative claim that they will contradict in a few months. Headlines like this are effectively worthless clickbait.

It is speculative but it is also a paper in Nature. It's hardly some random blog.

Exactly, I hold them to a higher standard.

Re: An asteroid killed dinosaurs in spring, which might explain why mammals survived

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't believe the downvoting. There's several major issues with the current dinosaur theory RN. Four areas of scientific incongruities regarding these animals’ large size are 1) insufficient muscle strength, 2) insufficient bone strength, 3) unacceptably high blood pressure within the tallest dinosaurs, and 4) the paradox of pterosaurs having grossly insufficient power to fly in atmospheric conditions similar to the…

People forget there were mammals compare to or were bigger elephants in our recent past. The giant ground sloth - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megatherium Mastodons - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mastodon Wandering Albatross - https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy-and-environment/ant... Giant armadillos - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyptodon They aren't around because humans hunted them out. Except the albatr…

Similarly, people may not realize that the largest animal to have ever lived is alive right now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_whale

Re: An asteroid killed dinosaurs in spring, which might explain why mammals survived

#44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But at say 10 bar of pressure, flight would be much easier... Is there any evidence for or against the surface pressure of earth being higher in the past?

Hah, while that could help a bird (if ACTUALLY 10 bar, which is insanely high - 145 psi, compared to 14ish now), it wouldn’t help as much as you would think. At STP, air is 1.3kg per cubic meter, and at 10 bar, it’s still only 11kg per cubic meter. Water is 1000kg/cubic meter. So yeah you could get some bigger birds, but t-Rex or brontosaurus weren’t meaningfully supported by the atmosphere in such a scenario even if…

>> The amount of additional mass required to have a 100 bar atmosphere instead of 1 bar is rather incredible, and there is so far no plausible method known for such mass to disappear.

Earth's atmosphere is constantly being blown away by solar wind[1]. I guess after 65 millions years this would add up. But I'm still not convinced if it's possible to loose enough air this way to lower pressure 100 times.

[1] https://www.sciencealert.com/earth-loses-hundreds-of-tons-at...

Re: An asteroid killed dinosaurs in spring, which might explain why mammals survived

#45
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26553081_Atmospheri...

I'm not great at evaluating the quality of Journals (Chemical Industry and Chemical Engineering Quarterly is at least peer reviewed), but that article has been cited 0 times, and its abstract reads like a YouTube video trying to convince me Bush did 9/11. > how can a giant dinosaur such as an apatosaur pump blood up to its brain (more than 13 m above its heart) when animal energetics and physics say that in no way ca…

We don't have soft tissue or a specific understanding of internal organs. Maybe they had multiple hearts with multiple vascular systems, or maybe the rate of blood flow and chemistry of energy production differed from animals we do understand. All we know for sure is that the brontosaurus was way too big for its biology to be understood by similarity to any extant creatures.

Maybe we'll be able to simulate dna, protein, and evolution at some point such that we can sample huge spaces to see if we can reconstruct creatures with similar features.

Re: An asteroid killed dinosaurs in spring, which might explain why mammals survived

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cretaceous atmosphere had a higher oxygen concentration (roughly 50% more oxygen than today). It was denser, but the idea that it provided structural support for large animals is ridiculous. Part of the reason animals could be larger then (from "giant" insects to genuinely-giant dinosaurs) is that the extra oxygen meant smaller lungs (or better absorption for non-lung-havers) required to support higher energy use…

But at say 10 bar of pressure, flight would be much easier... Is there any evidence for or against the surface pressure of earth being higher in the past?

A thicker atmosphere would provide more static lift, but flapping wings in thicker atmosphere would require larger muscles and use more energy. There are scholarly writings out there on this topic, but I'm not familiar enough with any of them to have an opinion. I know there's a school that argues pterosaurs couldn't fly today solely due to lower atmospheric density, and a school that argues they could. I think the lower oxygen levels would still be the primary barrier due to energy requirements.

Re: An asteroid killed dinosaurs in spring, which might explain why mammals survived

#50

One thing that isn't talked about as much as it should be, there's a possibility that 65 million years ago during the time of the dinosaurs, the earth's atmosphere was very thick. All these Dinosaurs with their extremely long necks and bodies couldn't support their own weight if wandering around the earth today. The mass extinction event may have occurred simply because the atmosphere changed and these giant beasts u…

The cretaceous atmosphere had a higher oxygen concentration (roughly 50% more oxygen than today). It was denser, but the idea that it provided structural support for large animals is ridiculous. Part of the reason animals could be larger then (from "giant" insects to genuinely-giant dinosaurs) is that the extra oxygen meant smaller lungs (or better absorption for non-lung-havers) required to support higher energy use…

Pressurized gas can act like a liquid. And at sea level, thick atmosphere would certainly be pressurized.

smaller lungs aren't relevant to the issue that comes up regarding extremely large dinosaurs.

Because it's not an issue of lung capacity, or oxygen supply per liter of blood.

We're not talking about animals that are comparable to modern day elephants.

Have you seen the size comparisons of dreadnoughtus to blue whales? They are enormous. The physics start to come into question. Just the sheer weight of skin and muscle hanging on bone. Even if the bones are hallow and even if the muscle is somehow more efficient due to increased oxygen in the blood.

Like a whale plopped on dry land, they'd collapse under their own weight standing up. Much less, hunting, mating, and fighting.

furthermore the thick atmosphere theory helps solve another tricky mystery which is the, Mesozoic Paleoclimate Paradox

During the Mesozoic era a remarkably homogeneous flora of tropical and temperate plant species covered the Earth. Plants such as ferns, laurels, palm trees, and Magnolia that could not withstand freezing, thrived at 70 degrees north and south latitude. Many of the same plants that existed near the equator were also thriving at the Polar Regions of the Earth.

For decades paleoclimatologists have tried to explain the Mesozoic paleoclimate paradox. If they matched the vegetation of the lower and middle latitudes then their climate models were too cold at the higher latitudes. If they matched the warm temperatures of the Polar Regions then their models projected an unrealistic hot sauna for the rest of the planet that again conflicts with the geological evidence.

The reason their climate software models fail to match the Mesozoic climate is because perhaps the paleoclimatologists make the incorrect assumption that the Mesozoic atmosphere was the same thickness as the present. As stated earlier, the variation of temperatures around a planet whether it is day or night or according to latitude, is a function of the thickness of a planet’s atmosphere. Planets or moons with no atmosphere will have the most extreme difference in temperatures, planets such as the present day Earth and Mars that have relatively thin atmosphere will still have these differenced in temperatures but much less extreme, while extreme thick atmosphere planets such as Venus and the Mesozoic Earth show almost no temperature difference at all according to latitude.

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