Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 1001 posts

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#141

Post by mrtranscendence »

newaccount2021 wrote: post #31
hwers wrote: post #21

I can't really tell what's going on here. Is the EU and America supposed to be helping out but it's all promises without real counter attacks? Is this just the calm before the storm as russia places their troops in the right spots while everyone looks on? Anyone who's smarter than me who could enlighten me?

EU is incapable and the US doesn't have near enough assets nearby in any case, Putin would likely respond with a nuke (he already basically hinted this), this is an endgame for everyone, Ukraine, Russia, Putin...there will be no de-escalation or peace process. Putin already said Ukraine "does not need to exist"...either the Ukrainians can fight him off or not. Probably not. Sanctions won't matter. Scolding Putin at t…

Putin responding with a nuke would be suicide. Maybe literal suicide. He's surely not that stupid?

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#142

Post by agilob »

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #108
agilob wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU also paid to build a city in what used to be Palestine, and before anyone moved in Israel demolished it all. No one even talked about it for more than a day > 319 Palestinian owned structures were demolished or seized, and 447 people (including 222 children) were displaced. Of the structures targeted in the six-month reporting period, 62 structures were funded by the EU or EU Member States with a value of nearly E…

What city? Can you post sources?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_demolition_of_Palestin...

https://eeas.europa.eu/sites/default/files/20200528_final_si...

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#143

Post by hutzlibu »

kblev wrote: post #129
causi wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU and US will use every diplomatic and financial weapon against Russia, but they've long since decided Ukraine and the Ukrainian people aren't worth actual war over. That call was made in 2014 and stopping Russia then would've been easier than it would be now.

It's good that Iraq and Afghanistan was worth a war, just Ukraine not so much

It is a bit easier fighting caveman jihadist and third class dictators with outdated military, than a nuclear superpower.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#144

Post by donkeyd »

thow-58d4e8b wrote: post #105
BitwiseFool wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is actually deviously brilliant. No one wants to shell the area because it would release all the dust and radionuclides that were buried during the cleanup. It is a perfect staging area because the downside to attacking it is so high. No allied forces in Europe want to deal with the fallout - literally. This is so genius I'm genuinely in awe. This is right out of Sun Tzu: “The art of war teaches us to rely not on…

Chernobyl sarcophagus is a massive pile of concrete - basically indestructible. Buildings made of concrete are ridiculously resilient to explosions - remember the Beirut explosion? That grain silo right next to the epicenter was still standing Berlin has some flak towers from WW2, quoting Wikipedia: The Soviets, in their assault on Berlin, found it difficult to inflict significant damage on the flak towers, even with…

You underestimate the amount of nuclear material that's still in the ground around there. Vaporizing that isn't a great idea.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#145

Post by sveme »

newaccount2021 wrote: post #31
hwers wrote: post #21

I can't really tell what's going on here. Is the EU and America supposed to be helping out but it's all promises without real counter attacks? Is this just the calm before the storm as russia places their troops in the right spots while everyone looks on? Anyone who's smarter than me who could enlighten me?

EU is incapable and the US doesn't have near enough assets nearby in any case, Putin would likely respond with a nuke (he already basically hinted this), this is an endgame for everyone, Ukraine, Russia, Putin...there will be no de-escalation or peace process. Putin already said Ukraine "does not need to exist"...either the Ukrainians can fight him off or not. Probably not. Sanctions won't matter. Scolding Putin at t…

I doubt that Russia can hold Ukraine for long. Once Putin is gone, everything he accomplished will fade away quickly.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#146

Post by elliekelly »

Terry_Roll wrote: post #90
whatshisface wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not clear whether every financial weapon will be used. For example, > The foreign ministers of the Baltic states called for Russia to be cut off from SWIFT, the global intermediary for banks' financial transactions. However, other EU member states were reluctant, both because European lenders held most of the nearly $30 billion in foreign bank's exposure to Russia and because China has developed an alternative t…

Russia and China have developed their own equivalent of SWIFT, so again this is a sanction which will benefit Russia just like the oil price going up will benefit them because Russia has the largest oil reserves in the world. Plus with Chernobyl, some of the fuel rods may well be weapons grade still, and Chernobyl almost bankrupted Russia, it certainly helped break up the Soviet Union according to Gorbachev, its also…

CIPS is not an "equivalent of SWIFT" by a long shot. It definitely helps soften the blow of any potential SWIFT sanctions but that doesn't mean losing SWIFT access would be a non-issue.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#147

Post by bandyaboot »

brabel wrote: post #110
rmk wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so options are somewhat limited. Russia intends to use Chernobyl as a deterrent to NATO, according to the report (how, I do not know). It is also not straightforward to put a NATO ally right on Russia's vulnerable flank (it's endless plains and flat ground from Ukraine to Moscow, which has always been a source of strategic vulnerability for Moscow), so admitting Ukraine to NATO was ne…

> ... including neutral Finland and Sweden deciding to join NATO, perhaps Georgia also. Did you hear evidence of that anywhere or is that just wild speculation?

Well it’s been reported that Sweden and Finland are going to attend an emergency NATO summit on Friday. So, speculation yes, but “wild” speculation? I don’t think so.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#148

Post by JumpCrisscross »

mikeyouse wrote: post #92
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ukraine is not a member of NATO, so options are somewhat limited Ukraine not being in NATO means we aren’t obligated to intervene. We regularly intervene in various things without a treaty requiring it.

Intervening militarily invites a counter response from Russia and could lead to outright war between NATO and Russia. It's one thing to assist Kuwait, quite another to send troops to fight a nuclear-armed adversary.

Totally agree. Just clarifying that the limiting factor on international responses isn’t Ukraine’s NATO nonmembership.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#149

Post by nine_k »

charliea0 wrote: post #119

The Russian forces seem to be trying to encircle or assault Kyiv. I think they've taken the nuclear plant because it is a defensible point along their shortest line of advance. They wouldn't want to move past it without controlling the site.

Also, either side would be pretty reluctant to bomb it, or otherwise battle too hard close to it. It's a great position to hold if you can.

Re: Chernobyl power plant captured by Russian forces

#150

Post by seizethegdgap »

thow-58d4e8b wrote: post #105
BitwiseFool wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is actually deviously brilliant. No one wants to shell the area because it would release all the dust and radionuclides that were buried during the cleanup. It is a perfect staging area because the downside to attacking it is so high. No allied forces in Europe want to deal with the fallout - literally. This is so genius I'm genuinely in awe. This is right out of Sun Tzu: “The art of war teaches us to rely not on…

Chernobyl sarcophagus is a massive pile of concrete - basically indestructible. Buildings made of concrete are ridiculously resilient to explosions - remember the Beirut explosion? That grain silo right next to the epicenter was still standing Berlin has some flak towers from WW2, quoting Wikipedia: The Soviets, in their assault on Berlin, found it difficult to inflict significant damage on the flak towers, even with…

> Chernobyl sarcophagus is a massive pile of concrete - basically indestructible.

This is such an hilariously uneducated take that it has to be trolling.

Let's set aside the facts that the sarcophagus' 20-30 year estimated lifetime has already expired, and has previously partially collapsed, and has had to be replaced by the New Safe Confinement structure. A stray artillery shell will tear apart any 36 year old building that was structurally weakened by an explosion, concrete or not.

Post reply on HN