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Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

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Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#391

Post by bodge5000 »

EvanAnderson wrote: post #154
georgewsinger wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Upvoted for the excellent feedback. 1. We'll do a better job defining the term "VR Computer" in our sales page. 2. We'll consider adding a keyboard/mouse as optional add-ons. We have thought about including a "keyboard apron" as an item add-on that is actually differentiated from other keyboards, and one that would be particularly useful for VR computing (with the added freedom of movement).[1] Would something like t…

I have the opposite opinion as the parent post re: keyboard/mouse. If I'm buying a piece of kit like this I have very strong opinions already re: my input devices. Unless you can make good margin on the keyboard/mouse option I think you're just adding friction and expense to your internal processes to support it. As an aside: I've tried to learn a chording keyboard in the past without much success. In a desktop setti…

I think the included keyboard idea was moreso to make clear that its an actual computer and not just a "VR monitor".

As an example, if you saw a monitor for sale and it came with a keyboard, you'd assume that it could be an all-in-one rather than just a monitor (you'd probably do some more research to confirm this obviously), whereas if you just saw a monitor on its own, you'd assume the opposite.

Of course in the case of AIO's and monitors its already quite clear what your buying, but in this case those context cues are a lot more important. I'm not sure it needs to actually include a keyboard, and if it does a cheap one would be perfectly fit for the purpose Im describing, but certainly it should be shown with one as much as possible.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#392

Post by jzer0cool »

Curious about VR resolution in general. How much resolution is necessary to be very close to "perceived" human eye resolution? Are we close to getting this over the next few years?

What I am speaking of here is say in motion picture we get some movie quality using 24 fps and you get some hyper realism after about 30fps. Given combination of resolution and fps, are we close to point of VR world being indistinguishable quality with reality?

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#393

Post by austinthetaco »

kanetw wrote: post #323
austinthetaco wrote: post #319

Looks like a very interesting prospect for a laptop replacement. One small question I haven't seen answered here is if you can plug in an external display, or how you plan to handle web conferences. Most orgs I've worked for like you to have a webcam on, and see others. I'm not sure how that would practically work if they see a webcam of someone with their headset on, would make for a pretty akward meeting.

We have several external DP ports via USB-C. Web conferences... hm. Difficult to have some form of webcam with the headset on, but maybe there's a good way we'll discover down the line.

I don't see myself ever buying one until you figure that out. I'm willing to bet you even take video calls in the making of this headset talking with different people. It's such a crucial piece in this remote work world.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#394

Post by chaosharmonic »

kanetw wrote: post #125
chaosharmonic wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious about this too, as well as if the pack is a single unit or a set of standard components that you can upgrade individually.

It's a set of standard components with some custom stuff: * Intel NUC Compute Element (CPU+RAM) * Custom heatsink/case * Custom carrier board for the compute element * M.2 NVMe SSD * Battery is still ongoing, but it'll most likely be custom. At least all custom components will be available from us down the line. Not sure down to which granularity (e.g. IC vendors might not like it if we sell ICs directly), but as gra…

Cool. Are there any plans in the future to ship non-Intel options?

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#395

Post by kanetw »

chaosharmonic wrote: post #394
kanetw wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a set of standard components with some custom stuff: * Intel NUC Compute Element (CPU+RAM) * Custom heatsink/case * Custom carrier board for the compute element * M.2 NVMe SSD * Battery is still ongoing, but it'll most likely be custom. At least all custom components will be available from us down the line. Not sure down to which granularity (e.g. IC vendors might not like it if we sell ICs directly), but as gra…

Cool. Are there any plans in the future to ship non-Intel options?

Not for this version, but definitely for subsequent ones-- assuming we have the volumes to make AMD consider us.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#396

Post by kanetw »

austinthetaco wrote: post #393
kanetw wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have several external DP ports via USB-C. Web conferences... hm. Difficult to have some form of webcam with the headset on, but maybe there's a good way we'll discover down the line.

I don't see myself ever buying one until you figure that out. I'm willing to bet you even take video calls in the making of this headset talking with different people. It's such a crucial piece in this remote work world.

I haven't turned my camera on in months, but I get your point.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#397

Post by kanetw »

zmmmmm wrote: post #388
DIVx0 wrote: post #16

This is a really interesting project I hope it succeeds and future iterations are either more affordable OR gains so much traction that its easy to justify the cost. At this price point I could only talk myself into it if the Simula was my primary computer which I think I'd have a hard time using it as such. Anyway, I am probably one amongst many who are watching this space waiting for experience reports and emerging…

> if the Simula was my primary computer It basically includes a whole computer. I am curious if one can simply plug in a regular monitor somehow and use it that way. If so, it would be something of a hedge against it being a useless brick if the VR part doesn't work out. Compact computers are kind of fun for lots of other reasons.

Yes, the compute pack has several DP outs and can be used without the headset.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#398

Post by kanetw »

jzer0cool wrote: post #392

Curious about VR resolution in general. How much resolution is necessary to be very close to "perceived" human eye resolution? Are we close to getting this over the next few years? What I am speaking of here is say in motion picture we get some movie quality using 24 fps and you get some hyper realism after about 30fps. Given combination of resolution and fps, are we close to point of VR world being indistinguishable…

It's indistinguishable from reality at 60 PPD (pixels-per-degree) in the foveal region. We're at 35.

Varjo has >60 PPD by having a high-res display for the foveal region and another for the periphery.

It's doable with our approach to optics (increased magnification in the foveal region) with... about 4k x 4k?

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#399

Post by georgewsinger »

vineyardmike wrote: post #387
georgewsinger wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for following our progress. I think this is a good question. Before getting into "reasons for NixOS", I just want to note that our headset is still an open-source Linux flavored project, which means that if you don't like our choices, you are free to install whatever Linux distro you want on it. =] You'll probably want to use Simula's window manager, but even here there will be other choices as well (xrdesktop…

Thank you for the great reply! I hope I didn't come across as mean spirited, I spent the whole day worried. My comment was meant to be critical but not dismissive - I feel like your response truly educated me as to how Nix could provide meaningful solutions. Again, keep up the great work, and hopefully one day in the near future I'll be able to try out Simula in person!

No worries! I enjoyed the discussion. And thanks for your interest in Simula. Can't wait for you to be able to try it out in person. =)

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#400

Post by lhl »

forgotmyoldacc wrote: post #264
lhl wrote: post #184

I'm a bit torn, as on the one hand, I'm squarely in the target demo and appreciate the huge amount of work that has gone into the project, and the PPD is really exciting. (back in 2015 I actually started building my own VR workspace software https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNtZmCDyEyU with an Oculus DK2 but shelved it for other projects waiting for better HMD hardware that never arrived). But sadly, I fear that if I…

> Panasonic's MeganeX, which uses 2560x2560 120Hz micro-OLEDs, is finally being released in the spring for The FoV is probably going to be worse than current gen headsets (Index, Quest 1/2, etc).

A lower FOV actually translates to better PPD. You can use a basic formula: sqrt(hRes^2+vRes^2)/FOV. So a 100 degree FOV would give you about 36PPD, but a 90 degree FOV would actually give you an even better 40PPD. 60PPD is Apple's target for a "Retina" display, although there's a strong argument that you need double that at least for line pairs. For computer work purposes, we really should only care about matching PPD of a monitor. 36PPD is about equivalent of a 27" FHD monitor from 2ft/60cm: https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/ and is probably good enough to start on focusing on other aspects of your optical design.

For a bit more nuance, here's a nice article that talks about how rendering geometry maps to FOV https://risa2000.github.io/vrdocs/docs/hmd_fov_calculation.h... although notably this does not account for the distortion shaders used in modern HMD pipelines to correct both for geometry and chromatic aberrations. There can be more techniques for improved text rendering, like what Oculus does with their timewarp layers: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1942692682...

For those interested, here's some discussion focused on optimal text rendering in 3D engines: https://bgolus.medium.com/sharper-mipmapping-using-shader-ba...

In a previous thread, @kanetw was actually kind enough to chat in more detail about some of the Simula's optical specs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29930547

For some basic references of different aspects of visual fidelity for HMDs, this old writeup by UC Davis professor/VR researcher Oliver Kreylos is a good place to start: http://doc-ok.org/?p=1414

If you're interested you can surf through his blog for lots of insights. Also, this doc is one I just found that does a good job covering a bunch of the optical issues with HMDs: http://almalence.com/doc/SPIE-11765-23-V3/Near-eye_display_o...

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