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"How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

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Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#91

Post by defen »

reason wrote: post #34

What do you guys get out of your smart-ass answers to potential clients? You do know that they come to you because they know that you are the professionals. Many of them are completely clueless as to how pricing works for dev/design-work. Asking "how much do you charge?" is a perfectly reasonable question for someone understandably uninformed to ask. You may be skilled at your trade, but from the sounds of it, many o…

> Imagine a curious older relative asking a physicist what light is and receiving "Well, it's sort of like one thing, but it's really not" as a response.

Hopefully he didn't ask Feynman! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMFPe-DwULM

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#92

Post by gbhn »

rhizome wrote: post #55
csomar wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree. For the client, this might seem not serious. How do you know the clients that you want to work for? Get to know him. As simple as that. What's his business? can he afford your rates? Is he ready to pay that rate or does he see the value of your work? And then ask for details. Give a reasonable estimate. Alert them that your hourly rate is $xxx and beyond the details specified in the estimate you'll cha…

For the client, this might seem not serious. Sure, but it's also important to point out that "How much is a website?" is not a serious question. The GP's answer might seem silly, but it brings into relief that you're dealing with a "how much is a car?" or "how long is a piece of string?" situation, and is merely a door-opener on par with the more-businesslike "well, it depends..." and comes down to personal style.

When I ask "How much is a website?" what I mean is, more or less, "What's the average price of the last 100 websites you did, weighted a bit by where you are in the price curve? If you could toss in the stdev, that'd be awesome."

Thinking that a person asking for a price concept has no idea that there may be variables is pretty pessimistic. Some are probably not worth talking to, but others are interested in basically getting a verbal sense of what the curves in the original article look like.

I asked a friend of mine who is a professional animator recently how much animation costs to produce per minute. He didn't come out with a meaningless answer like "From 10 cents to 10 million dollars." He gave me about a 30-second sense of what an average simple and high-end studio looks like and what it ends up costing to run them. That's a good answer, not a dodge.

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#93

Post by 8ig8 »

I used to fault the client or prospect for asking such _foolish_ questions, but in many cases this may be the first time they have ever engaged creative services. It seems so obvious to us, but not everyone has worked with an architect or an interior designer or a software developer or an advertising agency.

My tactic is to frame the 'how much does it cost' question into something they can relate to. I compare the website to a house. I explain that the cost is dependent on factors like the number of bedrooms and bathrooms. I explain that knowing a rough budget is helpful because the designers would know if they should shop at Ikea or (insert local high end furniture store). I ask them if they want hardwoods or carpeting.

Usually the house example helps the client understand that he/she is asking an impossible question and they then are more comfortable going into specifics about their idea so I can get then a fair estimate.

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#94

Post by tertius »

hopeless wrote: post #43

To all those designers comparing their pricing to car sales, consider this: I can wander around a car sales lot and browse the cars and their prices. I don't have to invent a "car spec" or give you a budget, I can see for myself what I can afford. Unfortunately, web designers don't take this approach or else I could browse through example (or previous) sites with their price tags proudly attached. I could see how muc…

Most designers have portfolios.

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#95

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

dotBen wrote: post #75
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's understandable to a certain extent, but there is no need for anyone to be rude about it. Someone wants a Facebook clone for $500? Simply respond "it's a huge amount of work and I won't be able to do it for that." If they press, explain why. It's one thing to be cynical; it's something else entirely to show that cynicism to a potential client. Hell, this isn't limited to the tech world: my wife trains horses an…

If they press, explain why. No, as a business person you just walk away. They're clearly not a prospect (ie, in the market to buy your services) because they've indicated a budget that is degrees of magnitude to yours. One of the wonderful traits of being a geek is the desire to explain and the desire to engage in debate. Digg/Reddit/HN are built on it. An important trait of a successful business person is to zero in…

Um, no!

Someone isn't disqualified as a potential customer simply because they don't know how much something costs or assume it costs X when it costs 10X.

A good customer understands value. That means that if they thought something costs $500 but it really will cost $10k, they'll be able to identify if it's worth $10k to them, or instead find out what they can get for the $2k that they can actually afford.

Just saying "no, I can't help you" and walking away isn't doing yourself any favors.

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#96

Post by jamesbritt »

tertius wrote: post #94
hopeless wrote: post #43

To all those designers comparing their pricing to car sales, consider this: I can wander around a car sales lot and browse the cars and their prices. I don't have to invent a "car spec" or give you a budget, I can see for myself what I can afford. Unfortunately, web designers don't take this approach or else I could browse through example (or previous) sites with their price tags proudly attached. I could see how muc…

Most designers have portfolios.

Most designers have portfolios.

Do these portfolios also show prices? I've never seen such a thing (well, aside from off-the-rack TemplatesAreUs.com sort of sites).

If pricing is such a case-by-case matter then perhaps there should be something on the site that explains this.

I've dealt with a number of potential clients for Web development who came in assuming that site building was much like (in their mind) getting a house built. Two bedrooms, 2.5 baths? This much. Three bedrooms? That much.

I've had to explain to people that even getting a house built is not like that, that while there are some common aspects there are also quite a few things that are going to be unique.

Clients are usually well-meaning and earnest when they go shopping for a developer or a designer, but typically have no idea how things work. A little time explaining things goes a long way.

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#97

Post by eric-hu »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #95
dotBen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they press, explain why. No, as a business person you just walk away. They're clearly not a prospect (ie, in the market to buy your services) because they've indicated a budget that is degrees of magnitude to yours. One of the wonderful traits of being a geek is the desire to explain and the desire to engage in debate. Digg/Reddit/HN are built on it. An important trait of a successful business person is to zero in…

Um, no! Someone isn't disqualified as a potential customer simply because they don't know how much something costs or assume it costs X when it costs 10X. A good customer understands value. That means that if they thought something costs $500 but it really will cost $10k, they'll be able to identify if it's worth $10k to them, or instead find out what they can get for the $2k that they can actually afford. Just sayin…

What you said reminds me of something I read from edw512's book ( http://edweissman.com/53640595 )

> Buyers of software products, like small children, hear one word more than any other: "no". "No, it can't be done." "No we don't do that." "No, if you did that it would screw up everything else." "No, that's stupid" It doesn't matter if you're right, all that matters is that you're just another person saying "no".

> You differentiate yourself from others by giving the exact same answer, but with the word "yes" instead of "no".

> "Yes, in order to do that, we'd also want to look at..."

...

> As I've told my customers many times, "The answer is always 'Yes'. You may not want to do it once you understand what it will take, but the answer is still 'yes'."

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#98

Post by wetbrain »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #95
dotBen wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they press, explain why. No, as a business person you just walk away. They're clearly not a prospect (ie, in the market to buy your services) because they've indicated a budget that is degrees of magnitude to yours. One of the wonderful traits of being a geek is the desire to explain and the desire to engage in debate. Digg/Reddit/HN are built on it. An important trait of a successful business person is to zero in…

Um, no! Someone isn't disqualified as a potential customer simply because they don't know how much something costs or assume it costs X when it costs 10X. A good customer understands value. That means that if they thought something costs $500 but it really will cost $10k, they'll be able to identify if it's worth $10k to them, or instead find out what they can get for the $2k that they can actually afford. Just sayin…

> Someone wants a Facebook clone for $500? Simply respond "it's a huge amount of work and I won't be able to do it for that." If they press, explain why.

>Just saying "no, I can't help you" and walking away isn't doing yourself any favors.

You're right. But it's a grey area. There are some real crazies/idiots out there, and picking up a delinquent client is parasitic. If you work a large project, and the client pulls some bullshit to avoid payment, you may need to take them to court. This takes time you could be productive on other projects. A client who signs off on a design, and then complains that it's not what they want, will extend project. Too much of "could you make the yellow more yellow?" "I want people to smell cinnamon and peppermint." results in a poor finished product due to both frustration and a lack of communication.

Just dropping a client has it's own difficulties, and may not be possible depending on the agreement.

"I'll pay you $500 for a large project" is one indicator that could be a difficult client. Of course, it's not a truth, but I feel a good defensive game goes a long way.

It's sampling bias, but http://clientsfromhell.net and http://clientcopia.com/ are entertaining yet frustrating sites to see some of the worst of it. Let's add to the cynicism!

And a decent top ten list. These guys are more common than you'd believe. http://freelancefolder.com/bad-clients-and-how-to-avoid-them...

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#99

Post by wetbrain »

nobleach wrote: post #56
wetbrain wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think part of it is the cynicism that develops from bad clients. Some people don't understand that the designer is a professional. Designers just draw all day, and love what they do, so why would I pay big bucks for a website? After all, my nephew does computers and I can have him make a website for cheap. There's also the "Of course we want you to have creative control. We just want to be able to tell you how it l…

I came here to say basically the EXACT same thing... even including the "my nephew can make websites" remark. My method is to try to figure that out VERY early in my discussions with a potential client, and then quote them a "scare off price" whereby they'll likely say no, but IF they say yes, the extra money will make it worthwhile as I KNOW they'll be asking for tons of changes. (Can't you just open Dreamweaver and…

Yeah, I hate "my nephew can make websites". I don't doubt that a high school student could put together a full website, with a store front or whatever else. But I'd be willing to bet it's not the most secure.

I'm sure there's something like this, but there should be a kind of Angie's list for clients to blacklist the delinquent ones. If not I'm making one.

EDIT: There's always the better business bureau, but it's not as complete.

Re: "How much does a website cost?" – a survey of web designers

#100

Post by pbhjpbhj »

gallerytungsten wrote: post #22

Whenever someone asks me this question, I ask them, "how much does a car cost?" Well, it depends on the car, they answer. Precisely. So do you want a used Honda, a new Corvette, a BMW, or a Rolls Royce?

Perhaps a better analogy is a vehicle?

Do you want a skateboard, pushbike, car, ute, truck, van, lorry, bus, juggernaut ...

If you're looking at car brands then you can get the same vehicle priced differently according to the badge on it. Then it looks like you're saying the cost of a website varies according to the pedigree of the designer more than the technical specification. This is true to some extent but not perhaps the answer one is trying to give.

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