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I want to pay for TextMate 2

marco.org

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Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#51

Post by dasil003 »

EricBerglund wrote: post #46
xyzzyb wrote: post #3

I absolutely agree. TextMate is still my favorite editor. I switched to it from vim in 2007 and have occasionally looked back and around at other editors, but always return to TM. Everyone on my team also uses TextMate all day, every day. We'd be happy to pay for TextMate 2.

As someone who's actually making an analogous opposite switch (learning vim rather than using Sublime), I'd love to hear your reasons for preferring Textmate over vim (I haven't used Textmate myself).

My switch last year was exactly opposite, and I too am curious about this thinking.

The TM2 delay made me realize that I simply can't put my editor eggs in a proprietary basket. The way I see it, mastery of Vim will serve me with a solid baseline for the next 30-40 years of a polyglot programming career. While editors like TextMate and IDEs can create better user experiences in particular languages, nothing smokes arbitrary text manipulation like Vim.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#52

Post by mrinterweb »

If TextMate 2 is great software new customers will buy the software. If TextMate does not come out with a new version, other editors like Sublime Text 2 will deprecate TextMate. If MacroMates wants to sell more licenses of TextMate they will need to be competitive with the other more modern editing software. MacroMates should hold to the existing contract that subsequent versions are free to upgrade to for TextMate 1. If they want to change that with TextMate 2 licences, that is fine. If you want to entice MacroMates to develop TextMate 2 with money write them a check and tell them what the money is for or buy a new license when the new version comes out.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#53

Post by nhangen »

eli wrote: post #36
nhangen wrote: post #6

I just bought it because I expected the free upgrade, and was patiently waiting. I don't plan on paying for it again.

Not be a jerk, but if you didn't plan on using Textmate in the mean time, why didn't you wait for 2.0 to come out before buying it?

Don't get me wrong...I'm using it, and I like it. I just don't feel I should have to buy the same product twice.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#54

Post by diab0lic »

eli wrote: post #36
nhangen wrote: post #6

I just bought it because I expected the free upgrade, and was patiently waiting. I don't plan on paying for it again.

Not be a jerk, but if you didn't plan on using Textmate in the mean time, why didn't you wait for 2.0 to come out before buying it?

Perhaps because he wanted to support the developer now, and it made little difference to him as it was as good as buying TM2 later... not to mention the price was locked in at the price you're paying now.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#56

Post by tptacek »

nhangen wrote: post #53
eli wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not be a jerk, but if you didn't plan on using Textmate in the mean time, why didn't you wait for 2.0 to come out before buying it?

Don't get me wrong...I'm using it, and I like it. I just don't feel I should have to buy the same product twice.

It's not the same product. It just has the same name.

I'm not saying your deal with Odgaard shouldn't bind.

I'm just saying, if Odgaard from the beginning had said "Textmate 2 will cost $60 and there will be no paid upgrades", that too would be a perfectly fair pricing strategy.

What Marco is hung up on is how underpriced Textmate is relative to the value it provides (unfortunately, it's a text editor for programmers; the price points it competes with create dynamics similar to those of trying to sell ice to Inuits).

I preemptively agree with you that Marco's observation about Textmate's pricing shouldn't bind on you.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#57

Post by sdfjkl »

Simple solution: Optional payment. Keep the promise of a free upgrade, but add the option to pay anyways if someone really likes it (if the current TextMate is any indication, many will).

I wish all software was sold like this: You get the full version for free, no restrictions, no nagging (perhaps a reminder once a month). If you really like it, you get the option to (easily, avoiding PayPal) pay for it. Heck, you might even let people choose the price.

Of course this would work only for software that makes people think: "Hey, someone really spent a lot of effort into making just the right tool for the job". Microsoft Office might not benefit from this method of "voting with your money" - but then that would probably be a good thing too.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#58

Post by weaksauce »

damiongrimfield wrote: post #34

What are all the features that everyone wants? Why all the hype? I gave up on TM2 a long time ago, but that doesn't mean I switched to another editor; I still use TM1 everyday. However, when I purchased TM1, I was promised TM2 for free, and therefore I'll have it for free.

There are quite a few things that textmate does not have but should have to be a full featured text editor. off the top of my head the main ones are: split screen, better printing control, better plugin system, ability for a real lexer/parser/tokenizer to be plugged into the plugin system(I guess you could get around this by writing your scripts in ruby and shelling out but that seems slow.) Regex for syntax highlighting your files breaks very easily. I might be way off base and all these are easily fixed with some plugin but I haven't found the solution to them yet.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#59

Post by tptacek »

gecko wrote: post #13

I have a lot of trouble understanding this mentality. I totally get paying when you don't have to in order to support fellow developers. I've got a nice collection of apps on my phone and desktop, all purchased, that I've acquired over the years to support my friends' development efforts. So if Marco wants to help out Macromates, that's fine. More power to him. But I don't understand this mantra of, "We'll forgive yo…

The simplest distillation of what Marco is saying may be:

Allan Odgaard built a great product but made a calamitous mistake in pricing it relative to the effort he ended up putting into it.

Marco has been auditioning text editors for several months now, and has come to the conclusion that he is happiest with Textmate.

Marco would strongly prefer to help Odgaard fix his pricing mistake over the option of having to switch to a different editor because Odgaard burns out on Textmate completely.

Re: I want to pay for TextMate 2

#60

Post by phillmv »

vtail wrote: post #26
gecko wrote: post #13

I have a lot of trouble understanding this mentality. I totally get paying when you don't have to in order to support fellow developers. I've got a nice collection of apps on my phone and desktop, all purchased, that I've acquired over the years to support my friends' development efforts. So if Marco wants to help out Macromates, that's fine. More power to him. But I don't understand this mantra of, "We'll forgive yo…

It's very likely that the original promise ("upgrade to version 2.0 will be completely free") was a huge factor in 2.0 shipping delay: Allan would need to invest a lot of effort to ship the new version to get only marginal return, as TextMate penetration of the relevant market was already high at the time the promise was made. Charging for 2.0 would seem like a breach of contract for people who only bought TextMate 1…

I can't believe there are so many cheapskates in here.

It's $60! WHO CARES! It's a tool you presumably use every single hour of your programming life. I refuse to accept that you feel personally violated over an idiot promise the author made six years ago.

Are people really saying that if the dude came out and said, "Hey guys, it's done but… if I keep my original promise, I literally won't be able to afford the bandwidth needed to distribute it" you'd feel personally slighted?

I'm not a fan of paying for dev tools, as I think open source is the way to go (yadda yadda yadda) but you're a professional for crying out loud. You get to write this off on your taxes.

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