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Intel acquires Linutronix

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Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#91
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Damn, the future of personal computing gets more depressing every day.

The market economy has discovered this path and is allowing it. - iPhone you can't freely distribute software to (and Android makes it sufficiently difficult that only 0.01% of users can do it, so we may as well count them in too) - infrastructure giants that turn open source services into paid platforms and then accrete all developer mindshare - thin clients replacing thick clients. Workloads will move from desktop…

>Android makes it sufficiently difficult that only 0.01% of users can do it,

That's BS. My mom installed f-droid by herself and can install apps from APKs without any help.

It's not like you gotta root your phone, use ADB, or break out the CLI for that. All you have to do is tap Install when prompted, that's it. OMG, so complex, only 0.01% of users can tap Install in F-droid. /s

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#92
post #4

Hopefully this results in even better drivers for Linux. I wonder if the graphics cards they have planned will have good Linux drivers too. I've always had a good experience with their Linux integrated graphics drivers so far.

I hope so too! But, I was trying to think of if I've ever seen the Linutronix folks working on the Intel graphics code. I don't think I have: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin... For very selfish reasons, I'm hoping that this acquisition will give the Linutronix folks even more of an opportunity to contribute to the core kernel and especially arch/x86. Disclaimer: I work on Linux at Intel.

There's a series currently under discussion which failed CI:

https://lore.kernel.org/intel-gfx/20211214140301.520464-1-bi...

Plus 13 patches over the past years (not counting merges and SPDX commits):

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/lin...

Unfortunately, a lot of the PREEMPT_RT patches follow the "disable stuff for now, fix up for real later" anti-pattern. :-(

Case in point:

https://lore.kernel.org/intel-gfx/YgqmfKhwU5spS069@linutroni...

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#93
post #18
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's probably the right move financially. People love to pay more for less. Prebuilt desktop, server and cloud companies have built businesses around that concept. The average person is undereducated and easily parted from their money. It's a lot easier to make a bad product that appeals to them and get half the market for free than it is to make a good product and try to appeal to the best.

Calling the cloud "less" in terms of return is certainly a take. Writing software in a DC was pretty miserable, managing the systems in a DC while having zero control over provisioning, having to file tickets, sending endless emails, and dealing with single lane DCs with little to no redundancy was particularly miserable. The cloud has a lot of flaws, and I do think we'll end up back in DCs again, but it'll be differ…

Companies are generally stupid, because any group large enough regresses to the median of its members, or worse, the average of its C-Levels. I'm sure they don't consciously see the cloud as less, but that's still the selling point; it's why they value it.

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#94
post #7

Intel seems to be making all the right moves. I'm excited to see what Pat Gelsinger can do over the next 5 years (I'm long INTC).

Their current CPU-features-as-a-service marketing push doesn't look like a right move to me.

No post body was provided.

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Plenty of chip companies are fabless. Apple is fabless, Nvidia is fabless.

Neither Apple nor Nvidia compete with TSMC, while Intel does

The argument was that being fabless is a strategically bad move. I don't see how Intel competing with TSMC refutes that? What am I missing here?

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intel has a lot of irons in the fire and some very talented engineers, but they've always competed with a process advantage behind them and been able to use it to recover from the occasional architecture misstep like Itanium or the Pentium IV. Pat Gelsinger is probably the best CEO they could have picked but they're in a tough position and I'm not optimistic.

A lack of process advantage is exactly the problem. I remember being at nVIDIA in 2008 and being afraid about Intel's Larrabee x86-based GPU architecture. I was genuinely afraid because they could do full custom design on the latest process and so the physical design would be much superior to nVIDIA even if the higher level architecture was not as great. I didn't care much about the x86 aspect because I knew software…

And the rumour on the street was that Larrabee was one of the reasons why Pat Gelsinger had to leave Intel.

And Intel Arc GPU is not being delivered on time either, last I heard was early Q1 2022 which is now Q2 2022. And in recent investor day conference, they again announced delays in their 2023 server chip.

These delays have occurred after Pat at the the helm, combined with Intel burning through a lot of cash; I don't understand why most are so gung-ho about Pat. Thankfully the early comparisons with Steve Jobs when he returned to Intel have stopped, they were both laughable and an insult to SJ.

[1] http://vrworld.com/2009/09/18/pat-gelsinger-left-intel-becau...

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#97
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Their current CPU-features-as-a-service marketing push doesn't look like a right move to me. That was bothering me a bit too, but then I realized it may have a use that most of us don't care about. Sure they could charge more for AVX512 or whatever, and they might try to charge rent for such options which I'm not a fan of. But what if they are being asked by 3-letter agencies for chips with custom circuitry that w…

How does it bother you less, assuming that 3-letter agencies can access parts of CPUs that you can't? If anything, it bothers me more! Why would they get special treatment, and why would I have to subsidize its features paying for my CPU to have it, but disabled?

FWIW, IIUC the binning process that designates chips as Core, Xeon, Pentium etc series ultimately sources parts from a common set of conveyor belts, identifying final designations using QC processes that further subclassify against what parts of a chip do not work correctly. So if say the AVX512 unit in a single core doesn't pass muster an entire die might go in the "doesn't have AVX512" bin and then get marketed appropriately; or perhaps (uncited speculation) a chip that fails the test suite for a Xeon E3 might get rebranded as a Core i3 instead.

I do wonder what percentage of this classification process is driven by process yield and how much is driven by volume quota requirements. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that this is an area of careful optimization; for all I know the entire silicon portfolio just ships the process yield org chart.

But all this means the user-facing FLAGS in the chip under the keyboard I'm typing this comment on is the result of a fuse configuration (aka policy), rather than a 1:1 representation of the potential of the photomask, and there are very likely a few micrometers worth of functionality I'll never get to use.

Of course I'm very curious if this is because the disabled areas were faulty (optimal use of manufacturing potential) or because *shrug* The Manufacturing Computer needed to meet its quota of Core i5s that day (arguably optimal fulfillment of volume potential). (Then there's the argument of disabling feature X across all cores for consistency, hmph.) But this is all firmly out in the weeds of implementation minutiae, and way beyond reasonable optimization; I have no idea what's theoretically broken in my CPU - and whether re-enabling that functionality explicitly to torture-test stuff I might like to make resilient would present me a relevant surface area of functionality I even knew what to do with (haven't yet played with C intrinsics for example).

At the end of the day, disabling functionality on-chip seems to be one of the few viable ways to claw fabrication yield back to something commercially viable and not utterly eye-watering, and IIUC it's been a staple for a long time.

Rereading your comment I realize it's quite possible you were writing with some or all of the above context implied and I may have misread. Not sure, disregard if so.

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#98
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That trick might work for home desktop due to the short sight bug in human consumers (mostly gamers?), but does it make sense for server? It seems like a bunch of potential liabilities for a cloud host or data center operator. This is basically DRM for CPU and as such, its primary function is to stop working when all the business rules don't line up right.

They tried it for home desktop ~10 years ago and had to back down: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Upgrade_Service

[ Sad mumbling about the ten year gap between United States vs. Microsoft Corp (2001) and the Chromebook (2011) ]

(In all seriousness, I just googled both of them for the first time as I typed the above to check the dates expecting it to be like 15 years or something. I honestly wasn't expecting... a small whiplash moment. Ow.)

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#99
post #56

Cute Lego digger: https://linutronix.de/videos/Linutronix_Bagger_1080.mp4

That sounds like a fun company to work for :) Sure one can whine about an RPi and "industrial reliability" (and all I can think of is that damned SD card...), but hey, it's just a cool movie, and it communicates in a nice way what they do. Also, it sounds like they should have been involved in the Mars helicopter (Ingenuity), which runs Linux and need these types of techniques. Cool podcast on the subject: [0] [0]: h…

While I agree with everything you said to a certain extent, I agree less that their expertise makes them uniquely qualified to engineer the flight software for the prototype helicopter on Mars. It is quite a different environment, but there is certainly plenty of crossover. I think JPL has enough expertise in this domain, though.

But yes, it's a wonderful thing that a fairly-accessible linux distribution is powering space missions in this era. It's long overdue, I think, and many of the JPL folks would probably agree.

Re: Intel acquires Linutronix

#100

Intel seems to be making all the right moves. I'm excited to see what Pat Gelsinger can do over the next 5 years (I'm long INTC).

Intel is currently worth less than AMD even though Intel's profit is quite a bit higher than AMDs entire revenue. I recognize that Intel has huge problems to solve but they absolutely seem undervalued currently.

I agree they are undervalued. That said, AMD is growing quickly in terms of earnings, and intel is not. I think it’s a matter of time and impeccable execution before Intel is winning again.
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