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We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

martindaniel.co

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Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#101

Post by eitland »

lobocinza wrote: post #97
eitland wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel you. Back in 2012 to 2015 I worked most of the time I think in the radio lab at the company I worked for at the time. Temperature was often above 30 degrees in the summer. I didn't think much of it back then, went into office, started working and forgot everything but after a while I realized I was drinking 1.5l water during the work day without needing to visit the restroom and I would be exhausted when I cam…

> Temperature was often above 30 degrees in the summer. I didn't think much of it back then, went into office, started working and forgot everything but after a while I realized I was drinking 1.5l water during the work day without needing to visit the restroom and I would be exhausted when I came home. These conditions are improper for extended work hours and intellectual work. I don't know how it is on your country…

> These conditions are improper for extended work hours and intellectual work.

Have my upvote, I agree. But let me share why I sat there if you want (warning, somewhat violent towards the end):

I wasn't supposed to be there but the alternative was working in an open floor plan office where everyone from project engineers to service managers had access, and that was purpose-built to be cool so that it could be shown to customers.

> I don't know how it is on your country but generally there are regulations regarding that.

Norway is good at this but sadly we don't have effective regulations against managers who come into the room "joking" about impaling some people from another culture on our coat rack :-/

In my case I found it better to stay in the radio lab instead of risking that conversation or another one like that going in the background while I was one the phone with an important customers.

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#102

Post by throw0101a »

mannykannot wrote: post #100
throw0101a wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The author also writes, in the caption to fig. 1: "The claddings function is principally to act as an ultra-violet screen", thus seeming to differentiate it from any of the control layers he listed at the start of the article. The cladding can not stop any water and, if the control layers beneath the insulation are properly installed, it won't make any difference. The fact that the cladding does help in blocking ra…

> The cladding can not stop any water... The fact that the cladding does help in blocking rain... Clearly you are using some words differently than I do, but it is not clear to me which ones. >...blocking rain is just a nice bonus to its primary function. In our house and our neighbor's houses, blocking rainwater is its primary function - we do not live in a desert. > Or if you have shingles on your roof that leak (o…

> In our house and our neighbor's houses, blocking rainwater is its primary function - we do not live in a desert.

Wherever you live the sun shines, and UV damage can be extensive against materials that are not designed against it. Cladding is about physical protection to the layers underneath.

> And that is when you need to fix your roof, regardless of what is underneath.

Yes, when you notice it. The shingles may be leaking into the roof structure without you seeing it for a while. Then once the roof has disintegrated, the leakage may go into the attic, which most people don't visit/inspect very often.

So by the time it gets to the ceiling in the livable space, where it is actually noticeable, there could be a lot of damage done.

> "Figure 2: "The Perfect Roof"—The perfect roof is sometime referred to as an “inverted roof” since the rainwater control layer is under the insulation and ballast." [my emphasis.]

You can call the things Foo, Bar, Baz, or whatever you want. The important points are the principals in the design and the order in which the different layers are (ideally) put together.

If you want to argue Joe Lstiburek, be my guest:

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Lstiburek

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#103

Post by sgt »

eitland wrote: post #101
lobocinza wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Temperature was often above 30 degrees in the summer. I didn't think much of it back then, went into office, started working and forgot everything but after a while I realized I was drinking 1.5l water during the work day without needing to visit the restroom and I would be exhausted when I came home. These conditions are improper for extended work hours and intellectual work. I don't know how it is on your country…

> These conditions are improper for extended work hours and intellectual work. Have my upvote, I agree. But let me share why I sat there if you want (warning, somewhat violent towards the end): I wasn't supposed to be there but the alternative was working in an open floor plan office where everyone from project engineers to service managers had access, and that was purpose-built to be cool so that it could be shown t…

Wait, what? Impaling who?

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#104

Post by clairity »

throw0101a wrote: post #68
KaiserPro wrote: post #28

One thing to point out is that yes, saving CO2 is grand, but this doesn't sell just how much more _comfortable_ decent insulation makes things. I live in a '30s UK semi detached. It had an air brick , a blocked up fire place and blown double glazing in each room. (barring two that were replaced) We had to re-render the place, as it was starting to fall off at the front, and the back was scarred from unfinished renova…

> We also put 90mm of external wall insulation round the outside as part of the re-render. This cost an extra £4k compared to just a normal re-render. Having insulation on the outside of your structure, and especially outside of your air/vapour barrier, is ideally where you want it (behind whatever cladding you're using): * https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/insights/bsi-001-t...

it seems these 'perfect' walls are really double walls, with an exterior wall and interior wall separated by a "control layer" that blocks air and moisture/vapor penetration, and reduces heat transfer.

the exterior wall features brick/stone cladding as a primary rain/UV barrier and thermal buffer, and a channel to wick away air, heat, and moisture on its interior, before hitting the "control layer".

the interior wall can be concrete block, steel frame, or wood frame, with only the latter insulated, and with a semi-permeable interior skin (gypsum board + latex paint).

both walls are designed to wick moisture away from the control layer to reduce mold and other problems.

the big downside to these perfect walls are that they're actually two walls, and as such, (roughly) twice the cost of regular stick-built walls, and they're twice as thick, which, given a fixed lot size, reduces interior square footage.

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#105

Post by mannykannot »

throw0101a wrote: post #102
mannykannot wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The cladding can not stop any water... The fact that the cladding does help in blocking rain... Clearly you are using some words differently than I do, but it is not clear to me which ones. >...blocking rain is just a nice bonus to its primary function. In our house and our neighbor's houses, blocking rainwater is its primary function - we do not live in a desert. > Or if you have shingles on your roof that leak (o…

> In our house and our neighbor's houses, blocking rainwater is its primary function - we do not live in a desert. Wherever you live the sun shines, and UV damage can be extensive against materials that are not designed against it. Cladding is about physical protection to the layers underneath. > And that is when you need to fix your roof, regardless of what is underneath. Yes, when you notice it. The shingles may be…

>>>...blocking rain is just a nice bonus to its primary function.

>> In our house and our neighbor's houses, blocking rainwater is its primary function - we do not live in a desert.

> Wherever you live the sun shines, and UV damage can be extensive against materials that are not designed against it. Cladding is about physical protection to the layers underneath.

This is a non-sequitur on at least two levels. Firstly, regardless of the truth of your statement about UV, it does nothing to address the point I was making here. If our houses were stripped of their cladding, they would soon fail - from rainwater damage, long before UV took its toll. Secondly, it is yet another attempt to avoid the overall issue, which is the author's position on the placement of the rain (not vapor or UV) barrier.

You seem to think that you can make an argument by quoting out of context and then stating some vaguely related fact, but, unless that fact has relevance, it does not work. Your comment about roof repair is of the same type.

> You can call the things Foo, Bar, Baz, or whatever you want.

This is just ridiculous. You are not even trying to address the question.

> If you want to argue Joe Lstiburek, be my guest:

I am not arguing with Joe Lstiburek, I asked a question about something he wrote, and have ended up arguing with you about what you mistakenly think would work as answers to that question. Your replies make it clear that you are no Joe Lstiburek.

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#106

Post by eitland »

sgt wrote: post #103
eitland wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These conditions are improper for extended work hours and intellectual work. Have my upvote, I agree. But let me share why I sat there if you want (warning, somewhat violent towards the end): I wasn't supposed to be there but the alternative was working in an open floor plan office where everyone from project engineers to service managers had access, and that was purpose-built to be cool so that it could be shown t…

Wait, what? Impaling who?

Other humans. I feel disgust just remembering that particular event and won't share any more details. Sorry.

My point was only that I had a really really nice office but preferred the hot and noisy radio lab strongly.

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#107

Post by labster »

dotancohen wrote: post #65
labster wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, insolation is fine, so long as you keep it below 1362 W/m2 or so.

Either GP poster is very, very tall (and can't breathe up there), or he's probably getting only about 300 W/m2 or so.

At that level he could be on Mars near the equator, and it’s hard to breathe there, too.

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#108

Post by heckerhut »

verve_rat wrote: post #57
heckerhut wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amortize is more than that imho. It’s about making a margin too.

No it's not. To amortize is simply to spread the cost over time. That spreading may come with its own costs, like interest, but that is not an essential component of amortization.

TY! TIL

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#109

Post by ClumsyPilot »

IgorPartola wrote: post #53
scrollaway wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that these figures include indirect emissions such as the ones made by the government on your behalf to maintain, for example, carbon expensive infrastructure. The roads are a big part of that in the US. American suburban car dependency needs to die.

The biggest energy expenditure and as a result CO2 emission source per person is food. You like having peaches in February in Michigan? You like having meat 7 days a week? Guess what: all the industrial agriculture and transportation of that meat from a thousand miles away nets you an energy expenditure of about 10kW 24/7. In theory the biggest lifestyle change you can make to save CO2 is to go vegan and buy local fo…

Local us not always good, tomatoes griwn un soain require less carbon than thise grown in uk because of greenhouses

Re: We changed our roof and cut CO2 emissions

#110

Post by sgt »

eitland wrote: post #106
sgt wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? Impaling who?

Other humans. I feel disgust just remembering that particular event and won't share any more details. Sorry. My point was only that I had a really really nice office but preferred the hot and noisy radio lab strongly.

Oh ok, that was pretty random. Yes, work where you feel you can be productive and happy.
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