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U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

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Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#251

Post by ramesh31 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #168
ramesh31 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The best balance I can come up for crypto is to mandate KYC at all on and off ramps That would drive the value basically to zero, since the entirety of all crypto market caps are based on their ability to facilitate digital crimes.

One, KYC in America does nothing for the rest of the world. Two, we know that’s not true. The aforementioned hedge funds could keep the flywheel going on their own.

You're implying that the hedge funds aren't involved solely to get a piece of the racket

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#252

Post by tastyfreeze »

rvz wrote: post #20

Now I know why lots of terrorists, extremists and dark net criminals are running to Signal with the release of a private untraceable cryptocurrency called MobileCoin, which allows them to fund their operations anywhere in the world. They seem to be starting to learn that Signal's USP is great for criminals and scammers. To Downvoters: I'm sorry to report that it is true: [0] [1]. [0] https://www.theverge.com/22872133…

In the US we have a right to be secure in our persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures. Signal and encryption in general are just locks on the doors of my house protecting my papers and effects.

Nobody should be labeled a terrorist or extremist for practicing their rights.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#253

Post by xadhominemx »

dogman144 wrote: post #182

What's difficult about the anti-crypto discussions is that a pro-crypto decision has already been made by quite a lot of parties that just don't discus it publicly. For every editorial or govt statement critical and concerned about cryptocurrency, there are, for lack of a better term, a corresponding number of "elites" plowing money into it, sitting on cryptocurrency company boards, building infrastructure and so on.…

What are you talking about? These “elites” - VCs and token holders — pump their holdings constantly

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#254

Post by ramesh31 »

Karunamon wrote: post #175
ramesh31 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The best balance I can come up for crypto is to mandate KYC at all on and off ramps That would drive the value basically to zero, since the entirety of all crypto market caps are based on their ability to facilitate digital crimes.

Do you have a single fact to back up this extraordinary claim?

>Do you have a single fact to back up this extraordinary claim?

Name one single use of Bitcoin that legitimizes the trillion dollar market cap, and that fiat currency doesn't provide in a safer, more legitimate way. The "sneaking across the border with my life savings" scenario doesn't count. That has nothing to do with the current market cap of Bitcoin.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#255

Post by dogman144 »

xadhominemx wrote: post #253
dogman144 wrote: post #182

What's difficult about the anti-crypto discussions is that a pro-crypto decision has already been made by quite a lot of parties that just don't discus it publicly. For every editorial or govt statement critical and concerned about cryptocurrency, there are, for lack of a better term, a corresponding number of "elites" plowing money into it, sitting on cryptocurrency company boards, building infrastructure and so on.…

What are you talking about? These “elites” - VCs and token holders — pump their holdings constantly

Serious financial service entities actively trading and account in raw crypto (vs. normal-finance derivatives) and supporting the infrastructure, for one. Good example - Mastercard just bought Ciphertrace.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#256

Post by randomhodler84 »

rvz wrote: post #248
matt_mb wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's plenty of us that use Signal and aren't terrorists or extremists. Do you drive a car or use cash? Terrorists do those things also.

> There's plenty of us that use Signal and aren't terrorists or extremists. That is my point. The road to hell is paved with good intentions isn't it? Except that on Signal, it has gotten better for terrorists, extremists and criminals with E2EE, and a private, unregulated, untraceable cryptocurrency (MobileCoin) which they can use to fund their activities. > Do you drive a car or use cash? Terrorists do those things…

One mans X is another man’s Y. The benefit of this technology is we don’t need to be arbiters. We are all equal and indistinguishable under strong cryptography. Don’t worry. If the bad guys are protected, the good guys are too. It can be no other way.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#257

Post by mjburgess »

vzcx wrote: post #239
mjburgess wrote: post #200

Despite other comments, I'm concerned there isnt enough anti-crypto here. Let's be clear: this is what a graph of the values of currencies looks like: https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y . Micro-value adjustments up-and-down, and if you comapred to the price of bread, midly inflationary. This is what all (necessarily deflationary) crypto "currencies" look like: https://www.xe.com/currencychart…

Where did you acquire this point of view? You sound very certain, but I think you've got it completely backwards: You say bitcoin cannot be a currency because it is highly volatile, but I'd argue that it's just as true that Bitcoin has high volatility because it isn't in widespread use as a currency. I suppose they can both be true: it's a network bootstrapping problem. This is the future bitcoin long-term buyers are…

My issue isnt it's volatility, which is dramatic and a barrier to adoption. But it's inherently deflationary -- we know how deflationary currency works, and it's a nightmare. The only people able to spend on luxuries are those who have so much wealth that holding it has lower marginal utility than the luxuries they want.

Everyone else spends only when they absolutely have to on necessities, as everything else is irrational. It's just better to hold the currency. This is the poverty trap of human history.

Crypto will never be a currency because it is designed as a speculative asset which transfers wealth to early adopters, in the manner of a bigger-fool scam. The early buyers paid $10/coin, and the fools paying $100k/coin will be the ones funding the cash-out by providing that USD liquidity just before the collapse.

If it collapses to $1k/coin, the early adopters will make their 10,000% return, second phase 100%, and the vast majority of people will be running at -100000%+

You could not design a worse system to be used as actual currency. It is incredibly slow, incredibly inefficient, a handful of early adopters hold all the power, etc. etc.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#258

Post by bluGill »

logifail wrote: post #106
bluGill wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different types of speculative investments. Stocks are backed by the company they are behind, when the company goes out of business the stocks stop trading. When you own stocks you vote on company leadership (or at least should). When the company makes money they pay you cash as a dividend (for tax reasons this most often comes in the form of a stock buy back making your stock more valuable. As such stock s…

> When the company makes money they pay you cash as a dividend (for tax reasons this most often comes in the form of a stock buy back [...]) Often? "Nearly 75% of the stocks in the S&P 500 pay a dividend, and the dividend for most of them exceeds the yield on U.S. 10-year Treasury bonds (currently around 2%)"[0] [0] https://cabotwealth.com/daily/dividend-stocks/highest-paying...

Even companies that pay a dividend buy back stocks.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#259

Post by mjburgess »

blatchcorn wrote: post #221
mjburgess wrote: post #200

Despite other comments, I'm concerned there isnt enough anti-crypto here. Let's be clear: this is what a graph of the values of currencies looks like: https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y . Micro-value adjustments up-and-down, and if you comapred to the price of bread, midly inflationary. This is what all (necessarily deflationary) crypto "currencies" look like: https://www.xe.com/currencychart…

I am probably not going to change your mind. But I think some stuff you should consider are: Is the volatility an inherent problem built into the code and design of bitcoin et al? Or does the volatility stem from external factors like it being new, difficult to value, and much lower market cap then other currencies? I personally believe that bitcoin's volatility is not by design and will not last forever. Secondly, y…

Yes, gold is another awful deflationary currency that drives people to poverty. The vast majority of people were poor on the gold standard. (Consider also, how much https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_of_Gold_speech spoke to the people).

In any case, crypto isnt a currency. Comparing it to any currency presumes vastly too much, let alone "fiat" which has enabled the fastest increase in general wealth in human history.

Crypto is a extremely slow, extremely operationally expensive, nightmarish system of baseball card printing. Designed explicitly to progressively, over time, dramatically increase the power and wealth of the early-stakers. Its value only exists whilst people continue to buy it.

Whether deflationary currency is a good idea or not (it isnt: it's horrific); whether digital currency is a good idea or not (it might be); crypto isn't (really, sorry: its scam -- pushed knowingly by scammers, and unknowingly by those holding very very very expensive tulip bulbs, who "just cant see" why everyone doesnt want tulips).

The game crypto people play is this: talk about the tech with finance guys to bamboozle; talk about the finance with the tech guys, to bamboozle. Talk about fiat/politics/gov with everyone because "presumably there's something wrong with the economy right guys!!11! financial crash, etc etc.".

Despite, of course, the last half-century being the most wealth-productive for everyone in human history.

This is a confidence trick. Crypto has nothing to do with why blockchains are useful (mostly, they arent). Nothing to do with non-fiat currency (an inflationary one might be useful). Nothing to do with politics (a system which increases the power of a few early adopters is NOT! better than democratic politics).

Crypto is a scam. Blockchain, non-fiat, digital, anti-gov blah blah is the mask the scam wears. If you want a digital non-fiat anti-gov currency, go ahead and make one. Crypto *is not that*.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#260

Post by dlubarov »

mjburgess wrote: post #200

Despite other comments, I'm concerned there isnt enough anti-crypto here. Let's be clear: this is what a graph of the values of currencies looks like: https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y . Micro-value adjustments up-and-down, and if you comapred to the price of bread, midly inflationary. This is what all (necessarily deflationary) crypto "currencies" look like: https://www.xe.com/currencychart…

I'm not sure inflation tax should be used as a tool to pressure people to promptly spend their wealth rather than accumulating it. But even if we agree with that premise -

Those who wish to avoid inflation tax already have access to stocks, bonds, gold, etc. Doesn't your argument apply equally to those assets? And yet, people regularly sell those assets as needed to cover their expenses.

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