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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#311

Post by valarauko »

soared wrote: post #216
drstewart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, none of that is true. There is no federal sales tax, and sales tax in most places didn't ever come close to 10%, let alone 20%. In many states it's 0. Filing your taxes is free. Maybe you can spend $30 if you want to use turbo tax to do it for you. Any job with these salary differences provides great health care and benefits. Cars exist in Europe, I know many software developers there that have them. Why people…

Yeah, none of this is true. There is federal and state income taxes with 7(?) states not having income taxes. 3(?) states do not have sales taxes. My states sales tax is 2%, but the locality has a 6% tax, so total sales tax is 8% and is higher on thinks like alcohol. Filing your taxes is free, but depending on the financial moves you make (selling stocks, rolling over a 401k, etc) you may need to set aside money thro…

> but depending on the financial moves you make (selling stocks, rolling over a 401k, etc) you may need to set aside money throughout the year to pay the bill.

isn't this true everywhere in the world? That taxable income from something like selling stocks has to be paid, and money may need to be set aside for it?

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#312

Post by gryn »

skywal_l wrote: post #289
baybal2 wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be another country which made resumes into a legal document: https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbeitsbuch#/media/Datei%3AA...

The fact that someone can ask you for your salary before renting you an apartment is not equivalent to what you point to. I would prefer this system to the Equifax's panopticon to be honest. The best system would be to have a third party insure your rent. So you would only communicate these kind of information to the third party of your choice with which you would have a legal contract including a privacy clause.

in France you're asked for your last pay slip(s) and last year's tax statement. the tax statement has a code that you can input to verify the authenticity of the document. https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/authenticite-avis-...

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#313

Post by nradov »

lbriner wrote: post #199
giantg2 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Performance management isn't an exact science and if everyone knew everyone else's pay, it would be total chaos and nothing would get done." How's that work for the GS structure then? Or for union jobs in various sectors? The only reason chaos would ensure is if there were extensive unexplainable and unfair practices.

It depends on what you mean by "unfair". In plenty of companies I have worked for, you pay quite a lot more than you want for a particular hire not necessarily because they are worth it but because you are desperate and they are nearly good enough. You generally don't get away with putting people's salaries down if they don't perform and if you did, they might leave ending with you being back in the mess. This might…

Word about salaries gets around via the employee rumor mill. The new highly paid employee will tell their co-workers over drinks, or accidentally leave a pay stub on their desk, or someone in HR gossips with their friends. Trying to keep secrets never works when there are no real penalties to prevent it.

In the US at least, employees are explicitly allowed by federal labor law to discuss compensation with each other. Employers generally can't retaliate against them for doing so (although like all labor laws that one is occasionally broken).

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#314

Post by mhoad »

wpasc wrote: post #277
mhoad wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is what bonus structures are for. Where you can pay extra in addition in order to incentivise better outcomes for your business.

What enshrines bonuses from being free from these disclosures and regulations? Any law about pay could be extended to bonuses and bonus disparity becomes pay disparity (unless I'm missing some enshrined, unchangeable, legal exemption/difference between bonuses and pay).

It’s not a law about compensation it’s a law about salary as far as I know. So total compensation is salary plus bonuses in that scenario.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#315

Post by bufferoverflow »

pimterry wrote: post #2

The meat is page 5 under "The changes the proposal would bring". Highlights: * Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range of posts they apply for * Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history * Employees would have a right to ask their employer for sex-disaggregated information on the average pay of other workers doing the same work or work of equal value. * Emplo…

> Job-seekers would have a right to information about the pay range

And there you go, they can just list $1 - $999999, but you won't be offered the higher end of that range.

"OH, that's for really special candidates who know Javascript and speak Korean and Farsi"

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#316

Post by izacus »

dijonman2 wrote: post #77
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The reality is that not everyone brings equal value to an org. Some are rockstars and others are meh. It’s natural, and you should be incentivized to improve.

And the reality is that wages don't follow the "rockstarability" of employees but whatever crap the employer could get away with at the time of hiring. Lying and misleading included in that.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#317

Post by ajsnigrutin »

dahfizz wrote: post #269
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Job title -> pay range. If you do work that does not match your job title (or job description) and your boss refuses to acknowledge it, I'm confident there's existing legal pathways to deal with it - with the help of unions if need be.

What about flat companies? At my current company, everyone is simply a software engineer and you are paid based on your value. Everyone seems happy with the arrangement.

Same problem here... small company, everybody does everything, same title, but different hours and output. I guess we'll have to think of unique position names for everybody

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#318

Post by rhines »

yladiz wrote: post #116
drstewart wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, none of that is true. There is no federal sales tax, and sales tax in most places didn't ever come close to 10%, let alone 20%. In many states it's 0. Filing your taxes is free. Maybe you can spend $30 if you want to use turbo tax to do it for you. Any job with these salary differences provides great health care and benefits. Cars exist in Europe, I know many software developers there that have them. Why people…

Have you ever filed your taxes by hand? The system is set up to basically force you to use a tool, and many tools aren’t free, especially if your income is above a certain amount. While not every point in the parent is fully accurate, dismissing all of them does a disservice to the point that the hidden costs do add up and generally you aren’t as well off in USA as you would think based on salary alone.

Even if you hire an accountant, it's what, $1000?

This reminds me of the argument (always given by people in HCoL areas) that it's not bad to earn less in LCoL areas because you might get paid 50% less, but also rent is 50% less. Forgetting that most other expenses are the same, and even if all living expenses were 50% less, that's only equal if 100% of your income goes towards expenses.

Salaries in tech in the US are so far off the rest of the world that a few more expenses really don't matter.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#319

Post by ajsnigrutin »

trashtester wrote: post #214
ensignavenger wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I could not find in the document is how it defines 'equal work' and 'equal value'?

Pretty sure the wording is intentially fuzzy, so the special interest groups can add the meaning after it becomes law. I would expect them to push for a Marxist view on "value" of work, basically each hour is of equal value, but where you adjust for number of years of formal education, again where the type of eduction is not important. A developer with a MSc from a top college may be compared to someone with an MSc/M…

Even worse is, that a high producing coder with just a high school degree can easily outearn someone with a PhD in ancient greek language by a huge factor. Considering that people who studied ancient greek are most probably receptionists in such company, this will cause a lot of problems in the long run.

Maybe full transparency would solve all those problems (eg. all paychecks are public), but i know people who prefer their paychecks private, because of otherwise modest lifestyle, their landlords would increase their rent, and random family members would come begging for money.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#320

Post by tripa »

marsRoverDev wrote: post #127
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The problem at least in France is that prospective employers will demand your pay slips from your previous job. If you are early in your career, they will use this to depress your wages as much as possible, making arguments like "well, we can't just give you a 40% uplift". So if your first employer screws you, the ones that follow can as well. Personally, I would just forge one with a much higher pay level - but most…

French here, never heard of the practice.

Closest I've had is current job, a global company, asking me first and last payslip of my previous employment, from which I was allowed/encouraged to retract information. I figure all they really wanted to check was employment and job title.

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