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In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

thehub.ca

761–770 of 849 posts

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#761
post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it increases costs on business, which reduces the number of jobs available.

Something just short-circuited here. So, plain act of talking money from your customer is... inefficiency? What kind of business are you thinking about? Online-only?

I mean yes? the extra costs of handling cash when most business is digital are pretty easy to imagine

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#762
post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if I claim that they can’t use physical force because they (the government) didn’t have the popular support and risk facing overwhelming violence escalation, what is your response to that? I'm not sure I'm following 100% your question, but I think you mean what if the government is so unpopular that the country is close to a revolution from its citizens? This doesn't really makes sense to me in a liberal democracy…

> I'm not sure I'm following 100% your question, but I think you mean what if the government is so unpopular that the country is close to a revolution from its citizens? I meant that they didn’t have the popular support to shut down the protest (I was not talking about the general popular support to the government as a whole, but just this specific issue). In the previous post, you were assuming that the protest does…

You are missing a key element of context in all of this. This protest took place "online" as much as in person. This was a giant photo op designed to generate propaganda to drum up support for a burgeoning handful of trumpist/brexit style political movements that largely propagate through social media platforms.

Exercising traditional forms of enforcement (as seen in almost every other protest in Canada in the past 20 years) would have resulted in the generation of sensationalist content that would have stoked a wildfire in the social media support for these movements. (Look at how much the network nodes of the movement pushed the single instance of violence - a horse that got spooked and trampled a protestor.) This is the reason why force was not used, and non violent/commercial methods were used instead.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think those things are true, and I live in Canada. I strongly support Trudeau's actions on this, and I'm sad that the government took so long to crack down on the "truckers". It's deeply damaging to civil society when a few extremists can shut down a city without consequences.

As a resident of the city in question, lets talk facts(whatever that means) if you care to read on.. Almost nothing was shut down as a result of this protest. You could travel over 99.5% of the city and forget a protest was taking place. Almost anything that was shut down, was shut down voluntarily. Only the 3-4 blocks immediately adjacent to the Parliament buildings (where else do you go to protest your federal gove…

Funny how you had to create a brand new account to post this.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#764

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part that as an individual I am practically invisible to the institution, and it would take a mob of mes to attract Sauron's eye.

You think that, until one day you wake up to the pounding of the FBI (or CSIS...) on your door at 6am. I thought I was a no one, I literally used the same Lotr metaphor as you, but in 2009/2010 during the occupy and wikileaks protests the US government must have decided I was enough (despite never going to a protest and commiting no crimes) and they raided me and ruined my life. I was never charged with a crime. Neve…

And how did you attract their attention?

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#765

> The government’s action is troubling enough, but what should really disturb us is the ease and invisibility with which it is being done. This is such a great point. I'm not sure why it needs to be made over and over again, but it seems that's the only way it doesn't get buried. Let's play a game. I will be the institution, you will be the person. You will get ability to record me with your cellphone and post stuff…

I'm all for putting more transparency and reasonable bounds on the process formally, but I think you're missing two points: 1. While having formal bounds would be great, in this case, it hasn't been shown yet that they applied force unreasonably and beyond what those bounds should be. Some people want to believe they froze assets of innocent bystanders or small local donors, but that's just conjecture right now. 2. I…

It should be noted that they did use physical force against the protesters to clear them from the street. That included teargas, pepper spray, batons, kneeing while prostrate on the ground with multiple officers present and no resistance from the protester, horses ridden through a peaceful crowd with at least two people knocked down and possibly injured including a women who appeared to be in her late 60s or 70s who required the use of a walker. There is video evidence of all of this if you care to look.

The response has been somewhat restrained compared to the antics that US police get up to but I would not call it a "civil way to force you to move".

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part that as an individual I am practically invisible to the institution, and it would take a mob of mes to attract Sauron's eye.

Do you mean to suggest that if you have nothing to hide, then you have nothing to fear?

No, what I am suggesting is that as an "individual contributor" you're unlikely to merit an outlay of resources to do anything about your antics until your actions are somehow significant.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#767
post #436
post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you listen to the next question, it seems like he was talking about people in the U.S. donating to the movement.

Which is strange if that is the case because they have no jurisdiction to make any kind of veiled threats towards U.S. citizens.

The whole point was controlling points of access for international funds (ie. the GoFundMe, GiveSendGo, crypto).

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#769
post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you explain what you mean a bit more? What things you feel make people lunatics in this case?

The fact that they are so angry at these truckers they are willing to give up due process in a court of law and think it is such a good thing the government can swoop in and freeze someone’s money. I think it is very dangerous and worry some unhinged person will lose it and go from protesting to attacking. I didn’t donate to these truckers and I never participated in any protests so suppose I don’t have to worry this…

I think it's important that we draw a line in the sand about what is acceptable behaviour in society.

Protesting is a right.

Shutting down a city, while being fueled by disinformation networks controlled by foreign state actors, and being funded by foreign political interests, is a threat to national security.

The problem is that it is very difficult to pinpoint where to draw that line of distinction... but it is something we very much need to do, even if it is difficult.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#770
post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Governments can make it a felony (jail time, fines) to interact with your wallet BTC >> Monero >> BTC. I take take There is plenty of reliable exchange platform that do not require IDs or even creating an account because they do not deal with fiat. Bitcoin is NOT anonymous by default if you don't know/care how to use it, but it is extremely easy to get full anonymity if you need it. It would also be very hard to pro…

> It would also be very hard to prove that you own a BTC wallet in a court of law. Regulation regimes will work on a whitelist system: only wallets that are "approved" are allowed. All other wallets ("anonymous") are preemptively frozen/tainted until they are approved. Result? No more private/anonymous wallets in the "legal" bitcoin system. > There is plenty of reliable exchange platform that do not require IDs or ev…

>Sure, and regulators would make them illegal under pre-existing KYC laws.

There is no such thing as KYC for exchanges that don't deal with fiat. In some cases, you don't even need to create an account at all.

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