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U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

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Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#191

Post by aaronsimpson »

zhdc1 wrote: post #124
nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

> I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. The more I learn about crypto (which isn't a lot), the more I agree that digital currency is the way ahead. I'm not convinced that decentralized ledger-based crypto is going to win out in the long term. Let's be honest, is there any coin at the moment that you would trust as a stable stor…

Even if the future of decentralized ledger cryptocurrency isn't bright, accelerating adoption of digital currencies is a good step forward. If that's all crypto ever accomplishes, I think it'll be a success. Some of course have concerns about privacy, tracking, etc., but the speed of payment rails in our current system is ridiculous given the technology we have.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#192

Post by bitxbitxbitcoin »

thatjoeoverthr wrote: post #184
survirtual wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Bitcoin and other PoW coins, the value is built into the name for minting: Proof of WORK. Less abstractly, today we can think of this as proof of energy consumption / production. In other words, it is sort of crystallizing energy into abstract & transmissible value. By holding a coin, you hold that value / solidified energy. It takes a certain and increasing amount of energy to generate 1 coin, which binds the va…

Work isn’t value. It’s cost. It’s not crystallized; the capacity to do that work is spent and gone. If you mine and sell a bitcoin, your profit is the revenue -minus- that work. (Not anti-crypto, just contesting this point.)

Good point. I try to identify the work/value that goes behind the USD. All the manhours and energy put into civic duties (military, government, etc). Also largely in the past and similarly uncrystallized, but somehow people find it to be more cyrystalline.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#193

Post by [deleted] »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#194

Post by exdsq »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

I actually got so stressed defending Crypto because a lot of the attacks get very personal (all people working on it are scammers, I’d never hire someone with web3 on their cv, etc). I kind of wish @dang would add a new rule regarding crypto because it’s always the same conversation but does hurt those working in the field on HN earnestly.

Edit: Even this gets downvoted lol

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#195

Post by magicjosh »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

Anti-crypto HN is real!

I still have not found the HN-like community that gets cryptocurrencies. Maybe it's just being created today. People say Twitter but it's still pretty meme oriented. /r/ethfinance is ok but not enough content. Zero Knowledge podcast is solid but podcasts are one way communication. And the forums for cryotocurrency developers are beyond my level of tech knowledge.

I wonder if at some point anthropologists will even study "tech's rejection of crypto" as a rift that became something more.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#196

Post by SilasX »

mlac wrote: post #174
SilasX wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but the parent's point (and my concern as well) is that "market crash" does not necessarily mean widespread fallout (e.g. Black Monday in '87); that only happens when the losers are tightly coupled to other critical parts of the economy, which isn't necessarily the case here: GS/JP Morgan won't have to default on loans to critical counterparties in a crypto crash, for example. Any time a big group loses wealth a…

It’s becoming widespread with all of the apps, super bowl ads, and reduced friction in getting into crypto “investing”. It used to be people who purchased crypto had to know what they were doing (and know the risk). Now anyone can buy crypto without any understanding of anything after seeing a 30 second commercial about smart investing.

Again: being widespread is not the same as being a systemic risk. That just means it's a casino everyone wastes money in. Who is defaulting on critically important obligations because of a crypto crash? What creditworthy business isn't getting a loan to cover cash flows for the quarter because BTC fell to 10k?

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#197

Post by BobbyJo »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

> If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system

This is the reason for the prevailing negative sentiment though. "Postgres will revolutionize the economy! Put all your money in unique keys!" Sounds crazy right?

I mean, it might not be wrong, we all trade assets using special government cotton, but it is still a wild thing to hear as a software engineer, and an even wilder thing to see people bet their life savings on.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#198

Post by mbesto »

concinds wrote: post #77
nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

Most of the anti-crypto critiques in Silicon Valley bring up these exact arguments: it's speculative, and it enables scams. At its root, it's a hatred of the "get rich quick" aspects of crypto. It evokes the same contempt that old-wealth (people with butlers) have for new-wealth (people with Lamborghinis): that they're childish, didn't earn their privileges, and need to be reined in. It's class signalling. Thankfully…

> it's speculative, and it enables scams.

The media sure likes to point to these things, but I personally have more specific criticisms:

- It provides store of value but limited medium of exchange. Until there is widespread adoption of BTC (i.e. people get paid in their salaries with BTC) then you're missing an important half of the definition of a currency

- Wash sales (see NFTs) and price manipulation is rampant.

> Those who are OK with that much power being concentrated in one person, can continue avoiding crypto.

If this statement is true "A minuscule .01% of Bitcoin holders control nearly a third of the supply"[0] then how is this any different? Isn't that worse then the current setup? To me crypto is simply a shift in power from a small number of people to another shift of small people (bureaucrat to technocrats). As the saying goes "new boss, same as the old boss".

> But no amount of public outcry can ban, shut down or criminalize crypto, same as you can't ban IMAP or AES.

Sure, but if you can't use BTC as a medium of exchange then it'll just be that - a speculative asset. So what other utility does it have? KYC (in the US) basically restricts BTC from ever becoming a medium of exchange.

[0] - https://fortune.com/2021/12/20/001-percent-bitcoin-holders-c...

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#199

Post by rgrieselhuber »

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #176
nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

I've noticed a correlation in attitudes between strong buy-in to establishment narratives on almost any topic and a rather overt hostility toward any challengers to fiat monetary systems.

As the downvotes illustrate perfectly. The shared characteristic in both points is the presupposition that coercion is an acceptable foundation for building systems.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#200

Post by mjburgess »

Despite other comments, I'm concerned there isnt enough anti-crypto here.

Let's be clear: this is what a graph of the values of currencies looks like: https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=GBP&to=USD&view=10Y . Micro-value adjustments up-and-down, and if you comapred to the price of bread, midly inflationary.

This is what all (necessarily deflationary) crypto "currencies" look like: https://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=XBT&to=USD&view=10Y . Extreme swings, compared to the price of bread, massively deflationary.

That is also the graph of the value of tulips during https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania .

Regardless of whether you think (this obvious scam designed to enrich a handful of early stakers) is a scam or not: it cannot be a currency.

A currency cannot be this massively and necessarily deflationary, as it is never rational to spend it. If your currency is guaranteed to increase in value, it is always better to hold it. Thus rendering the only alleged use of crypto economically incoherent.

At this point, tulips in hand, you should start to wonder why you're being sold on the idea of a tulip-based economy. Clue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_fool_theory .

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