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U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

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Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#171

Post by spaceisballer »

unstatusthequo wrote: post #99
nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

Agree with you on all of that. The general HN sentiment towards cryptocurrency is so acutely negative. I generally don’t even bother clicking links related to it because of this issue. Its just asking for whiny diatribes about how crypto sucks and will ruin everything. It’s ironic to me how freedom loving HN can be, until it is finance related and threatening governments and banks but empowering the masses. Seems biz…

So all the things you have listed consuming energy have uses. They are doing something. Can they be more efficient, sure. What exactly is crypto doing? What is it solving? The crypto industry keeps growing and consuming video cards, processors and energy. To do what? So if it’s a currency it’s not even close to the efficiency and speed of the current financial system. Ease of use too, not even close. People are making money though, so I guess we don’t question it?

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#172

Post by mbesto »

nightski wrote: post #117
AlexandrB wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? Most other assets represent ownership of... something. A company, a commodity, property. Cryptocurrency is closest to either a fiat currency without the government backing that typically tries to stabilize those. Or to more exotic and abstract financia…

This is just one person's opinion, but even with PE ratios, profitability, or any financial statement you can read determining the value of a company's stock (not the same as the company itself) is almost as hard as bitcoin. If you can reliably price a stock based on any measure of company value then you could be very rich very fast. There is a reason they say don't stock pick just buy an index fund and hold.

> If you can reliably price a stock based on any measure of company value then you could be very rich very fast.

What you're saying is already true and already is happening. The global financial services industry is a $20T industry.

> There is a reason they say don't stock pick just buy an index fund and hold.

Yes for the common retail person sure, but someone has to purchase stocks to put them into an index. Those are professionals who evaluate PE ratios, profitability, and financial statements.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#173

Post by deprave »

survirtual wrote: post #169
AlexandrB wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? Most other assets represent ownership of... something. A company, a commodity, property. Cryptocurrency is closest to either a fiat currency without the government backing that typically tries to stabilize those. Or to more exotic and abstract financia…

For Bitcoin and other PoW coins, the value is built into the name for minting: Proof of WORK. Less abstractly, today we can think of this as proof of energy consumption / production. In other words, it is sort of crystallizing energy into abstract & transmissible value. By holding a coin, you hold that value / solidified energy. It takes a certain and increasing amount of energy to generate 1 coin, which binds the va…

So I can pay my utility company $100 a month for energy I consume, or pay $40000 for a bitcoin representing energy someone else consumed? Got it.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#174

Post by mlac »

SilasX wrote: post #152
mlac wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When that much money goes “poof”, it’s going to have real world consequences. And the people who are going to get burned are the last ones on the bus - the least technical, the ones who think it will make them rich, the ones who can’t afford it.

Yes, but the parent's point (and my concern as well) is that "market crash" does not necessarily mean widespread fallout (e.g. Black Monday in '87); that only happens when the losers are tightly coupled to other critical parts of the economy, which isn't necessarily the case here: GS/JP Morgan won't have to default on loans to critical counterparties in a crypto crash, for example. Any time a big group loses wealth a…

It’s becoming widespread with all of the apps, super bowl ads, and reduced friction in getting into crypto “investing”.

It used to be people who purchased crypto had to know what they were doing (and know the risk). Now anyone can buy crypto without any understanding of anything after seeing a 30 second commercial about smart investing.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#175

Post by Karunamon »

ramesh31 wrote: post #149
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Banks will be hurt by crypto Anyone saying this is talking bollocks. Wall Street hasn’t seen a bonanza like crypto since ‘06. Hedge funds are having their best fundraising years since the 80s, largely on the back of crypto-related trading. The best balance I can come up for crypto is to mandate KYC at all on and off ramps, tax its trading like the luxury good it is (maybe using the proceeds to fund law enforcement…

>The best balance I can come up for crypto is to mandate KYC at all on and off ramps That would drive the value basically to zero, since the entirety of all crypto market caps are based on their ability to facilitate digital crimes.

Do you have a single fact to back up this extraordinary claim?

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#176

Post by rgrieselhuber »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

I've noticed a correlation in attitudes between strong buy-in to establishment narratives on almost any topic and a rather overt hostility toward any challengers to fiat monetary systems.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#177

Post by Mezzie »

concinds wrote: post #77
nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

Most of the anti-crypto critiques in Silicon Valley bring up these exact arguments: it's speculative, and it enables scams. At its root, it's a hatred of the "get rich quick" aspects of crypto. It evokes the same contempt that old-wealth (people with butlers) have for new-wealth (people with Lamborghinis): that they're childish, didn't earn their privileges, and need to be reined in. It's class signalling. Thankfully…

I'm pro cryptocurrency (the idea) and anti cryptocurrency (the practice).

> Thankfully crypto isn't a democracy. Money market funds, banks, stock exchanges, and every other financial institution can be frozen instantaneously by the U.S. President to "prevent another financial collapse". Those who are OK with that much power being concentrated in one person, can continue avoiding crypto. But no amount of public outcry can ban, shut down or criminalize crypto, same as you can't ban IMAP or AES.

I find this a funny argument. First of all, there's basically no understanding of civics in it. That's not how it works. The President can't just call up banks and tell them not to give people their own money, or shut down every stock market in the world.

Now you have a point if you're talking about control resting with a small number of people: Those in the highest echelons of finance and government. But on the other hand, this is also a problem with crypto as it is: Because it relies on things most people don't understand (the math and computer science), the people who do understand it have the power. It seems to me this argument is just 'No, we don't want that small group of people in charge; put OUR small group in charge instead.'

If so, be honest and make an argument as to why we should trust you more.

I've worked in politics and done tech and I don't trust either further than I could throw them, and I'm a tiny lady cripple.

Also, you can absolutely ban IMAP or AES, it just requires more effort.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#178

Post by thebean11 »

ianai wrote: post #57
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Canada was only willing to do this under overwhelming popular support(popular support to shut the protest down), of which I don’t think crypto exchanges have a similar amount of public and sustained animosity towards.

Unfortunately, the adults in the room have to be unpopular when particularly dangerous situations arise.

A minority of people imposing unpopular rules on society sounds like a good thing to you?

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#179

Post by [deleted] »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#180

Post by ttul »

survirtual wrote: post #169
AlexandrB wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? Most other assets represent ownership of... something. A company, a commodity, property. Cryptocurrency is closest to either a fiat currency without the government backing that typically tries to stabilize those. Or to more exotic and abstract financia…

For Bitcoin and other PoW coins, the value is built into the name for minting: Proof of WORK. Less abstractly, today we can think of this as proof of energy consumption / production. In other words, it is sort of crystallizing energy into abstract & transmissible value. By holding a coin, you hold that value / solidified energy. It takes a certain and increasing amount of energy to generate 1 coin, which binds the va…

Except that, in practice, because crypto mining can happen anywhere there is electricity, people exploit weak governments to get their electricity from the cheapest possible source. And to the extent that crypto miners are competing for scarce electricity resources, they increase the cost of electricity for other uses, crowding out, for example, its use for heating and light.

These are not good things.

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