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Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

shop.simulavr.com

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Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#31
post #9

I see people have issues with the price tag, and while it is by no mean cheap, since it's actually a full blown computer AND a VR headset all in one, it is somewhat justified. The computer specs match my Framework laptop and the headset is, on paper, on par or better than other high-end VR headsets (and a miles ahead of my Meta Quest 2 and other consumer-grade VR headsets).

Well people say the Index is expensive at $1K (full kit) this thing is 2-5x that. Will be interesting.

Also this scene of him being outside typing while using VR ha. It'll be interesting, the shot using it in a coffee shop too hmm.

The keyboard is Durgod Fusion btw (non-split one).

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your concerns about pricing. We made a post earlier this year discussing why our expenses are so high.[1] TLDR: Low economies of scale and high launch costs. With that said, our pricing and specs are still competitive with ultra-premium VR headsets and premium office laptops (which we have essentially combined into one unit). We also have a pricing option to reserve a headset with a partial deposit: pay…

>(Q4 '22/Q1 '23 target) We'll talk when it actually ships. You do understand 3k is a ton of money right ? The other issue is even if I did pre order , the second you miss a release date I'd file a charge back. Get too many charge backs and payment processors will stop accepting orders for you. To be honest it would make more sense to develop an ultra cheap option, anything 1k or less, and you'll find people ready to…

> You can buy an HTC Vive for 800$, and a PI4 for 60$.

Why would anyone use Dropbox?? You can just use SFTP, CVS and a 5$ VPS... [0]

Seriously though, let's treat your comment as non-trolling:

The HTC Vive - a 6-year-old device - does not have anything close to the per-eye resolution needed to do any kind of desktop computing, AND it uses outside-in tracking, meaning you need external lighthouses so it's not really portable.

You would have been better off saying "You can buy an Oculus Quest 2 for $629" instead.

The PI4 does not provide the computing power to drive a VR display like that. That's kind of it right there. Bad example again.

0: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9224

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#34
post #19

Your site doesn't mention the weight or the battery life. I guess the real answer is in the dog-food. Does your team use VCRs to develop it?

The software side does; there's videos of George working on Simula in Simula. Trickier for the EE/ME side as it's all Windows.

RE weight: we're targeting 800g (balanced evenly between front headset/rear compute pack).[1] This shouldn't be more straining than a Valve Index.

RE battery: our target is 3 hrs (for reference: the Quest has a 2-3 hour battery life).

Here's the link David was referring to: https://youtu.be/FWLuwG91HnI. It shows me dog-fooding Simula's software on the HTC Vive.

[1] This is still a preliminary number, which might change as we make tradeoffs in battery life vs. thermal solution vs. weight.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#36

Hey George, I think you need to remove the `www` from your shop link above. This link (found from the page) seems to work fine[0]. [0] https://shop.simulavr.com/

Yes, this was totally my mistake. I'm unable to edit the post now but emailed dang to see if he can fix it.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#37
I know, people are already talking about a price, but I want to add my perspective as well.

I was subscribed to the Newsletter, read every blog post and generally was pretty hyped for the Simula One. Up until I read the blog post about the pricing. That's when I unsubscribed the newsletter and forgot about SimulaVR.

Sure, other AR/VR headsets cost as much, but for me its just too expensive. I can't spend nearly $3k for a headset I haven't even tried. This product is already targetted to a niche without considering the price, add in the pricing and that niche gets even smaller. Basically, the only people who will buy these are rich silicon valley nerds.

Wish SimulaVR the best of luck, but for the moment it seems like I can't really support them.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#38
post #16

This is a really interesting project I hope it succeeds and future iterations are either more affordable OR gains so much traction that its easy to justify the cost. At this price point I could only talk myself into it if the Simula was my primary computer which I think I'd have a hard time using it as such. Anyway, I am probably one amongst many who are watching this space waiting for experience reports and emerging…

Thanks for your support. Though our goal is for people to replace their PCs/Laptops with VR Computers as their primary computing device, we recognize this is a tall order and will require a lot of hard work and proof over time for people to see that they're actually better. We're expecting review units to be available in a few months.

Good luck, I've dreamt about this as a kid.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#39

Casual project follower here: I really want to use this device for remoting into other machines, so I can use my work computer via Simula - does the native Simula OS allow for this?

Sure, you can use Parsec or something, but you'll only get an Immersed-style "virtual desktop". Having full separate window transmission would be more difficult/impossible for non-Linux targets.

Re: Show HN: Simula One – Portable Linux VR Computer

#40
As a VR developer, I'm super excited about your device. I work for a foreign language instruction service, where we teach adults in diplomatic and security service settings. We've built a VR app that lets our students meet with their instructors remotely and practice language skills in culturally-appropriate settings.

In that capacity, I've done a lot of pricing out of VR kits and evaluation of devices. It became pretty clear early on that A) our students need the simplest possible setup that we can ship to them, B) the market is still too volatile and the current dominant players are too platform-oriented to commit fully to any one headset, and C) we need to be able to iterate rapidly, on our own, away from any app store.

Balancing all of these requirements eventually led us to building a WebXR app. It runs pretty much everywhere (any VR headset that matters[0], desktop, mobile[1]). We had high hopes for the Pico Neo and the HTC Vive Focus, but we primarily target the Meta Quest 2.

Mozilla was the biggest factor in that decision to focus on the Quest 2, because they really dropped the ball with Firefox Reality. Firefox Reality's last update was over a year ago, despite many desperately needed fixes for major show-stopper defects. Stuff like not being able to handle non-default IPD without massively distorting the image. Stuff like not being able to anti-alias the framebuffer the VR context uses. Stuff like janky ImageBitmap support forcing all of our texture pre-processing into the main render thread. Lesser stuff like being based on the pre-standards WebVR API, which lacked all but the most basic of VR features.

Quest's Oculus Browser is based on Chromium, with support for some experimental WebXR features that drastically improve the experience such as the Layers extension and the high refresh rate support. The lack of a serious browser competitor to Chrome across the entire market--but especially in a greenfield market like VR, when Mozilla has Hubs as a revenue-earning concern--has been the single biggest impediment to our ability to be truly cross-platform. But now Igalia has picked up the torch with Wolvic, so we're looking forward to seeing where that goes.

Wanting to stay out of any app stores and not wanting to require our users to have to share any data (see above on who we serve, Facebook login is a hard stop), we bought 35 headsets through the Oculus for Business program over the course of last year. Then with the Meta announcement Facebook also announced they are shutting down Oculus for Business.

So needless to say, this has been a very rocky journey. An open source, high-end, standalone, not-tied-to-a-platform VR headset can't come soon enough.

I'm curious if you have any plans on making any lower spec models at a lower price point? I've found that, given all our needs, we can't get any combo of kit together for less than roughly $1000, after you add up all the licensing and accessory costs. We're really comfortable spending that amount of money per headset. PCVR is a no-go for us--we already have enough problems getting linguists to figure out how to use the Quest 2 that I'm not going to toss a tethered VR setup at them--but if we were to go there it'd be around $2000.

We'll probably be able to get by with our current fleet of headsets for at least a year, but at that point we're going to be looking at depreciating them out. We have enough to cover about 10% of our student body at any one time, which is more than enough now, but my hope is to grow the app and start encouraging instructors to use VR as well. We basically choose the number of headsets we have based on how much we can afford, and then we push it out to students based on how many we have available, so any reduction in price is directly transferable to growth for us.

[0] I don't know of any currently that don't have some browser support available, though see my notes on Firefox later.

[1] Minus iOS, for well-known reasons, but that might be getting better soon. Not that it matters, nobody is using it that way.

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