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U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

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Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#121

Post by throwaway4good »

aqme28 wrote: post #96
AlexandrB wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? Most other assets represent ownership of... something. A company, a commodity, property. Cryptocurrency is closest to either a fiat currency without the government backing that typically tries to stabilize those. Or to more exotic and abstract financia…

> Basically what's missing is the ability to even guess at the "true" value of cryptocurrency. There's no P/E ratios to consider because the only thing Crypto "produces" is Crypto transactions. It's also impossible to even guess at a floor or ceiling for the price of a cryptocurrency. The only thing that determines their price is human sentiment - a very fickle input. Interestingly, this isn't really true anymore. Mo…

Sure,

For example crypto.com offers 12% pa. on your USD account.

https://crypto.com/eea/earn

P/E just like normal company ...

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#122

Post by dataangel »

pjc50 wrote: post #100
concinds wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the anti-crypto critiques in Silicon Valley bring up these exact arguments: it's speculative, and it enables scams. At its root, it's a hatred of the "get rich quick" aspects of crypto. It evokes the same contempt that old-wealth (people with butlers) have for new-wealth (people with Lamborghinis): that they're childish, didn't earn their privileges, and need to be reined in. It's class signalling. Thankfully…

> But no amount of public outcry can ban, shut down or criminalize crypto, same as you can't ban IMAP or AES. This is a terrible example as the US government really did ban DES for a while - at least for "export", which includes publishing on the internet. People who say "the government can't ban X" are really badly underestimating how far governments are willing to go if you really do start disrupting the state.

Yeah and how effective was that ban? Not very, and if it were tried today it would be totally impotent.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#123

Post by mistrial9 »

concinds wrote: post #77
nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

Most of the anti-crypto critiques in Silicon Valley bring up these exact arguments: it's speculative, and it enables scams. At its root, it's a hatred of the "get rich quick" aspects of crypto. It evokes the same contempt that old-wealth (people with butlers) have for new-wealth (people with Lamborghinis): that they're childish, didn't earn their privileges, and need to be reined in. It's class signalling. Thankfully…

California - ground zero for "new wealth" .. no, people do not buy Lamborghini's here.. that is for Miami, Eastern Europeans in Moscow or London, Chinese at Yahoo years ago, or maybe teenage'like guys around New York or Chicago. Here, people like the readers on this site, amass seven figures, and cannot buy a decent house because it is not for sale, and it is too expensive for someone with seven figures of savings. Second, old wealth, zero people have butlers. It does not exist here. But they do have large houses, extensive financial investments including Warren Buffet's stock. A good percentage of wealthy people here do not have children, and therefore grand-children, and among those that do (Catholics etc) the wealthy older people talk non-stop about how to keep the grandchildren out of the money, away from the house, and constant concern for being in a law-suit against a close relative that wants to do any of that.

Unfortunately, reality is complicated and stereotypes die every day. In California I believe we are seeing in real time, a lock up of the system of value (money) where the assets are so large, and so immoveable, compared to what people "earn" by working in a job, that there are strange bucklings visible on the street. With Coinbase founders living within three miles of this place here, I agree, there is no stopping this in reality. Big thieves hate little thieves, and it is no secret that the Federal Reserve itself is making a cryptocurrency, with centralized transaction tracking - it was announced here!

sorry - I forgot, Lambos in Los Angeles, definitely. Angelinos have always been like that, it is part of the scene. So I am talking "not LA California" perhaps.. my bad!

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#124

Post by zhdc1 »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

> I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News.

The more I learn about crypto (which isn't a lot), the more I agree that digital currency is the way ahead.

I'm not convinced that decentralized ledger-based crypto is going to win out in the long term. Let's be honest, is there any coin at the moment that you would trust as a stable store of value and not a speculative investment? Fiat currency goes down in value over time, but most central banks are good enough at keeping the rate of loss relatively constant. Most, although not all, coins are also less than ideal for conducting transactions. There's also a regulatory aspect that, for some reason, is generally discounted by advocates.

However, I could definitely see something like GNU Taler gaining widespread adoption, especially if central banks make good on releasing digital currency. There's no reason for consumers or merchants to pay anything more than absolutely minimal transaction fees on purchases. There's also no reason that electronic payments or transfers can't post in near real time.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#125

Post by cors-fls »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

> Another argument is that crypto enables ransomware attacks. This to me sounds akin to saying “encryption enables child exploitation”. I.e. it focuses on one abhorrent element of society that would take place no matter what and blames its existence on a system which has great potential for good, a kind of propagandist thinking.

You are biased too. How about comparing "crypto enables ransomware" to "unregulated gun sales enable mass shootings" ? Most western countries have regulated gun sales to avoid mass shootings, it works and the people sees this as a positive thing.

OK, it's controversial so replace "gun" with something else that is forbidden in the US for the greater good.

Compared to "guns for everyone", encryption has a lot of usages that are necessary (and beneficial). That's why banning encryption on the pretense of child exploitation is a mistake.

What does crypto bring to the table that is as necessary and beneficial as encryption ? Is it more like encryption or more like guns ?

On the other hand you also have to compare the bad side : is enabling ransomware as bad as enabling child exploitation or mass shootings ? (certainly not).

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#126

Post by throwaway4good »

nrzd wrote: post #52

I’m blown away by how anti-crypto this discussion is. I hadn’t realized how negative the prevailing sentiment is on Hacker News. One argument seems to be that cryptocurrency is purely speculative, which is apparently a dirty word. What about the stock market? What about any kind of investment? If you truly believe that cryptocurrency is the basis for a superior economic system, isn’t it rational and wise to put some…

It has become more and more obvious that cryptocurrency, like the gold as sound money movement before it, has a strong political side and is deep in bed with the alternative right.

I think that explains part of the strong hn reaction to it.

The other side is software architecture of it, where crazy resources are spent making some parts decentralized, while other parts are centralized and ignore, creating a broken, overcomplex beast.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#127

Post by aqme28 »

throwaway4good wrote: post #121
aqme28 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Basically what's missing is the ability to even guess at the "true" value of cryptocurrency. There's no P/E ratios to consider because the only thing Crypto "produces" is Crypto transactions. It's also impossible to even guess at a floor or ceiling for the price of a cryptocurrency. The only thing that determines their price is human sentiment - a very fickle input. Interestingly, this isn't really true anymore. Mo…

Sure, For example crypto.com offers 12% pa. on your USD account. https://crypto.com/eea/earn P/E just like normal company ...

What are you talking about? APY on a loan is not P/E.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#128

Post by tromp »

UncleMeat wrote: post #40
Consultant32452 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deflationary currency encourages savings, inflationary currency encourages spending. We're just so accustomed to a world where our money is steadily becoming worthless that sometimes we forget there are other options.

The "inflation/deflation" argument is a red herring. The shape of mining curves is much more important than their upper limit. For all of the bluster that deflationary systems are better for the little guy because their wealth isn't eaten by inflation, the logarithmic mining curves are the biggest source of wealth consolidation seen perhaps in human history, shifting absolutely bonkers amounts of wealth from latecome…

> the logarithmic mining curves

They're not logarithmic though. Most are exponential in that they are of the form Lim * (1-e^time) which might look like a log function initially, but has different asymptotics.

Several coins have a quick ramp up (high block subsidy) followed by a tail emission of fixed low block subsidy.

Only one coin has a pure linear emission, which helps to deter speculation.

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#129

Post by vmception »

mwigdahl wrote: post #114
danuker wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the purpose of Blockchain is to avoid regulation Citation needed. I use Blockchain as resilient storage for the accounting of a scarce digital asset.

How about https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf ? Right in the introduction: "What is needed is an electronic payment system based on cryptographic proof instead of trust, allowing any two willing parties to transact directly with each other without the need for a trusted third party." "Trusted third party" includes regulators, among a wider array of other institutions.

It still functions that way

Permissionless means they can operate just as much as anyone else, nobody relies on them

Re: U.S. Secret Service Launches Cryptocurrency Awareness Hub

#130

Post by CabSauce »

mantenpanther wrote: post #103
mlac wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highway infrastructure is also anchored in physics and math. It doesn’t mean we should treat highways like a currency that should be purchased and traded. Starting a business is open for millions “without western privileges” - and stock is owning a business. Starting a profitable business that adds value (people are willing to pay you for a service) is a lot more useful to society than spinning up another coin that d…

A neutral, permissionless currency adds value.

At least until someone creates another one... and another one... and another one.
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