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EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

europarl.europa.eu

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Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#81

Post by gruez »

Levitz wrote: post #61
JanSt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe pay shouldn't be based on the personal ability to negotiate, which is not a core competency for most jobs, but on a equal compensation for equal work then...

While we are at it, the cost of a product should depend on its objective value, not what the market pays. My point being that sure, ideally it wouldn't be like that, but any implementation I can possibly think of is not viable at all. Jobs are fairly unique things.

> While we are at it, the cost of a product should depend on its objective value, not what the market pays.

"What the market pays" is the objective value.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#82

Post by iso1631 »

dijonman2 wrote: post #77
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The reality is that not everyone brings equal value to an org. Some are rockstars and others are meh. It’s natural, and you should be incentivized to improve.

The reality is I spend time applying for a job which claims a "competitive" salary for a "network architect", and eventually find it's in the 35-45k range "depending on skills"

Those companies then run off to government saying "we can't employ anyone"

Fortunately more and more job listings on linked in are listing ballpark salaries so it's easy to ignore them, there's a few coming up which are reasonable salaries for what they want too IMO, so that's good.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#83

Post by Hamuko »

tpm wrote: post #57
mustyoshi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does making salary public and not asking about applicants pay history work? If you tell them your title and employer, can't they just look up what you probably got paid?

No. Individual personal salary is private information protected by law (at least in our country). Starting salary range in job offers is public, that's not enugh information.

Salaries might be private here, but taxes sure aren't. A recruiter could feasibly walk into the local tax office and ask to see my taxable income for 2020.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#84

Post by lesuorac »

alistairSH wrote: post #71
mustyoshi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does making salary public and not asking about applicants pay history work? If you tell them your title and employer, can't they just look up what you probably got paid?

In the US (I realize the article is about EU), salary information for a given individual is not public* and employers typically will not share it (when queried by a prospective employer, they will only confirm employment history - "yes, Bob worked here for 5 years as a developer"). Several states have implemented similar rules (CO and CA, IIRC). A job listing would typically list either a minimum salary or range for…

Eh, salary information isn't posted in a newspaper but if your company has a subscription to Equifax they can look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_Number

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#85

Post by froh »

I_am_tiberius wrote: post #73
nivenkos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's public in many countries anyway - Norway and Sweden at least have public tax returns.

> It's public in many countries anyway That doesn't mean it's good and it is not public in all countries. I don't consider this a valid argument.

Nor does it mean it's bad.

Also how do others know that some job ad matches the job that you are doing?

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=sala...

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#86

Post by khuey »

dijit wrote: post #48
aborsy wrote: post #3

Honestly, it’s going to be embarrassing with these low salaries when we socialize with non EU colleagues!

I used to think this (as a euro), then I met an American and he explained that he ended up better off in Europe on a "lower" salary because he hadn't considered the hidden costs of living in the USA. He claimed (though I'm certainly no expert) that you have to do your own taxes and set aside money for that; he also claimed that "sales tax" had local, state and federal taxes applied, so while it varies from state to s…

The big ones are healthcare, public transportation, and perhaps childcare (my understanding is that this varies a lot from country to country in the EU). Needing health insurance and a motor vehicle for transportation effectively functions as an additional tax on many people.

Consumption taxes in the US generally top out at around 10% (San Francisco's is currently 8.625%) which is noticeably below European VATs. Sales taxes also generally do not apply to services at all, and most places exempt certain basic necessities such as groceries.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#87

Post by dgellow »

dijonman2 wrote: post #77
tialaramex wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employers would be prohibited from asking about an applicant's pay history Aw, that was one of the fun moments when getting my current job. I moved from private sector to public sector and they're like "You understand that the previous pay you listed is more than our boss's boss, the director of our entire org unit gets paid right?". Yes, yes I do. Which is why when you asked at interview "Why do you want this role…

The reality is that not everyone brings equal value to an org. Some are rockstars and others are meh. It’s natural, and you should be incentivized to improve.

My experience is that once you remove the "rockstar" from a team (and by this I mean that they leave) the other employees take over their tasks and responsibilities without issues, and everything works fine. Which makes me believe the rockstar effect is quite often just a myth.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#88

Post by thinkindie »

glofish wrote: post #59
Glawen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why dismiss the proposal based on how companies can avoid it? I like this proposal because it is a step towards transparency. It is not perfect, as any law, but the small steps are compounding over time.

It is not as much about dismissal of the proposal - they are just pointing out a trivial mechanisms to bypass it, all the while making us all worse off. I for one suspect that better the "equality enforcement" gets the less ability a company has to reward a better worker over worse ones. This applies to both men and women. When everyone is "equal" it just means more productive people subsidize the work of less produc…

If someone is not productive up to the company standards is usually let go, at least in private sector for small-medium companies ( Public Sector and large corporations are different thing).

At the same time, even if the range is large you might still give an hint to the employee for how far they can go with their raise requests.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#89

Post by lordnacho »

froh wrote: post #76
nivenkos wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's public in many countries anyway - Norway and Sweden at least have public tax returns.

What do you mean public tax returns? Public to who?

Meaning there's a website where I can look up the incomes of my Norwegian friends.

Re: EU to mandate public salary information for all job postings [pdf]

#90

Post by froh »

trabant00 wrote: post #49

I find myself at the other end of the equal pay problem - I am equally payed with equally titled but not equally working coworkers. The entire management chain has clearly different expectations from me: I get most if not all of the difficult tasks and my coworkers rely daily on my guidance. In this quarter discussion with my manager I've been told I can not get a pay raise as it would create a discrepancy with my co…

Good luck finding another job. This is a problem of shitty management, not transparency, right?
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