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In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

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Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#721

Post by BeefWellington »

refurb wrote: post #498
BeefWellington wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please quote the exact "mountain of evidence" in your link about the arson case. I was referring to the other documentation of violent and otherwise criminal behaviour by protestors, not the arson case.

Then why did you say "The scariest to me personally was someone attempting to start a fire in a building nearby to the convoy while duct taping the doors shut.[1]" and link to the article as proof of violence committed by the convoy?

It was scariest to me because it was personal - I have friends who live currently adjacent to the building in question. Had they succeeded in their goal it's possible many people would have died and at that point it would have largely been irrelevant if they were members of the convoy or just opportunistic arsonists.

You'll also note I was careful in my wording ("nearby to the convoy") because that part is unclear. It's coincidental timing if it wasn't people participating convoy people. I already addressed this part though. I also provided a plethora of other examples.

I also didn't suggest that alone was "proof of violence committed by the convoy" -- Why have you avoided comment on the other links I provided?

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#722

Post by throwaway0a5e »

peterbraden wrote: post #622
jjav wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We need better legal protections for electronic payments and banking. I can comfortably predict that can never happen. Electronic payments offer governments perfect and absolute surveillance and blocking ability. No government on earth will vote their fingers off that pie. The only freedom-compatible answer is to insist on cash.

This makes me sad, you are so confident that a government can never do the right thing, that the only solution you see is to prevent any progress, and anchor yourself to a local minima from the past. Society needs it’s members to believe that they can improve it, that they are represented by a government, and that they can influence it’s path. Anything less is an authoritarian regime. Such deep seated cynicism shows…

>Society needs it’s members to believe that they can improve it,

There are a lot of assumptions about the role of government in society in your comment.

There's a heck of a lot of people out there who think society can be improved by refining, restricting or reducing government's role in specific areas or generally.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#723

Post by btbuildem »

romaniv wrote: post #164

> The government’s action is troubling enough, but what should really disturb us is the ease and invisibility with which it is being done. This is such a great point. I'm not sure why it needs to be made over and over again, but it seems that's the only way it doesn't get buried. Let's play a game. I will be the institution, you will be the person. You will get ability to record me with your cellphone and post stuff…

You forgot the part that as an individual I am practically invisible to the institution, and it would take a mob of mes to attract Sauron's eye.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#724

Post by throwaway0a5e »

bobthepanda wrote: post #346
Supermancho wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until people discover that the next place they wave their watch I'm not sure this has ever caused a reversal. There is a minority who speaks out, which sometimes gets traction enough to cause some sort of change, but the majority take the path of least resistance.

it kind of depends. there have been big pushes against red light cameras and similar automated license-plate enforcement in the US. which is actually kind of a wash, when you consider the alternative is often the unequal manual policing instead. in an older version of this, I know some places had and then removed the ability of tollbooths to cut speeding tickets. (It's pretty trivial to establish speeding if you get…

Automated surveillance enforcement tends to bring the discrepancy between the law and the norms of behavior to light. The state prefers to forgo enforcement and keep the law rather than keep the enforcement and alter the law to reflect norms.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#725

Post by Naga »

adolph wrote: post #718
braingenious wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Police have not confirmed any link between their investigation into this incident and the ongoing convoy protest. I invariably see some version of this post every single time somebody posts about the attempted arson. Are you of the opinion that in order for something to be true that it has to be publicly confirmed by police? Do you consider the statement that you posted to be positive proof that the arsonists are _d…

No, I assume the arsonists might be from any population, not excluding the truckers. I think the facts of the matter don't support the claim that "protestors attempted to burn down an apartment complex." Looking at the photos of the arsonists, I see one is ear-wearing a mask. Having a mask at all seems out of character for the trucker-protestors given other photojournalism. Maybe it was a disguise? Why would anyone t…

In fact, arson attempts are so common in Ottawa that you could probably make the argument that the convoy was preventing arson from occurring. /s

The news reported that someone in the building had a confrontation with some of the protesters that day, and then there is video of someone trying to burn the building down. I wonder if it could be related. The facts of the matter are that there is no linkage to the truckers because the cops don't know who it is. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Why don't we say instead that the occupation instead created an environment of lawlessness where the police had no control.

My anger isn't really placed at you, but I'm really sick of people from all over the internet telling the people who actually live in Ottawa that the protests have been peaceful. I wrote about this on my blog earlier this week: https://nsavage.substack.com/p/makeottawaboringagain. Everyone is keen to talk about what the truckers want, or what the government wants, but no one wants to talk about how the only people directly affected by the occupation are the people of Ottawa, who are faced with things like:

- Harrassing elementary school children: https://pressprogress.ca/elementary-school-students-and-teac...

- Flooding 911 system: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/politics/article-police-say-...

- Forcing businesses to close: https://twitter.com/CreesonCTV/status/1492620852764020743

- Millions in lost revenue: https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/truck-convoy-costs-ottawa-s-busies...

These things are obviously not okay and not signs of a peaceful protest. They should be beyond the pale for everyone. I'm working on a new article about the Emergency's Act and freezing bank accounts, and I think the government went too far, but that doesn't mean that any of the things that came before are acceptable.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#726

Post by btbuildem »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #145

Excellent article and one that I wish my friends would read. Recently on a hike I mentioned how upsetting Trudeau’s actions are, and none of my friends had any idea what was happening up in Canada, except someone talked about a few things that I don’t believe are true: truckers were violent, few Canadians supported them, etc. - I think those things are not true. As other people here have pointed out, cashless society…

There's something I've learned about the HN crowd through this, that's for sure. Many here were supportive of the attempt at a christo-fascist uprising in Canada. Very thiely of y'all.

In Canada, popular support for the convoy was around 30%, but it's a little more nuanced than that. Most are sick and tired of the health measures (duh) but very few actually approve of the way in which the protesting was carried out.

EDIT: The downvotes kind of drive my point home. Thanks!

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#727

Post by throw10920 »

btbuildem wrote: post #723
romaniv wrote: post #164

> The government’s action is troubling enough, but what should really disturb us is the ease and invisibility with which it is being done. This is such a great point. I'm not sure why it needs to be made over and over again, but it seems that's the only way it doesn't get buried. Let's play a game. I will be the institution, you will be the person. You will get ability to record me with your cellphone and post stuff…

You forgot the part that as an individual I am practically invisible to the institution, and it would take a mob of mes to attract Sauron's eye.

In a digital world, the Eye of Sauron is multi-threaded.

(your statement isn't true when it comes to virtual + automated surveillance)

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#728

Post by btbuildem »

zaptheimpaler wrote: post #415

I don’t know how Trudeau/Freeland could possibly be this idiotic. The protestors played it smart - they were peaceful yet strategic in blocking major import/export roads so the government actually felt the pain. Instead of even talking to them, the government permanently damaged a large number of peoples trust in any financial institutions. As a practical matter, how do I begin to move towards unseizable assets? Cryp…

The emergency wasn't a bunch of churchy rednecks blocking roads, silly.

The emergency was Ottawa police doing nothing, Windsor police doing nothing, OPP doing nothing, RCMP doing nothing, Ontario provincial govt doing nothing, Alberta provincial govt doing nothing -- for almost a month. We came really close to a crisis of faith in our system of governance. The federal govt (in my opinion) didn't have much of a choice but to bring out the big guns.

It just demonstrates to me how broken politics are in this country, that individual politicians are so focused on their own advancement that they could not see they were endangering the very system they're parasites of.

Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously

#730

Post by daedlanth »

throw10920 wrote: post #727
btbuildem wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot the part that as an individual I am practically invisible to the institution, and it would take a mob of mes to attract Sauron's eye.

In a digital world, the Eye of Sauron is multi-threaded. (your statement isn't true when it comes to virtual + automated surveillance)

My dagger is multi threaded too.
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