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IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

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Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#71

Post by jcadam »

vineyardmike wrote: post #55
jcadam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main issue is if it's required. Not so worried about myself - I'm a veteran which means my fingerprints and DNA are already on file with the feds somewhere :), but US Citizens with no particular connection to the federal government absolutely shouldn't have to need a "National ID."

> the federal government absolutely shouldn't have to need a "National ID." But every state has an ID system, and they're all known to each other, and tied to your SSN which is a national id number. We already essentially have all the parts, just messier. > my fingerprints and DNA are already on file with the feds somewhere Same. Probably same for lots of people. > US Citizens with no particular connection to the fed…

One of the big issues with instituting an income tax is it changed the relationship of every citizen with the government. Other than the postal service, the average citizen almost never dealt with the federal government directly. Now, everyone knows and despises/fears the IRS.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#72

Post by TameAntelope »

rank0 wrote: post #69
kkielhofner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes down to it the US has a fear driven culture, down to what essentially becomes paranoia. US violent crime statistics are at near all-time lows. Yet I know many, many people that will not leave their house without at least one firearm. This is in small towns that haven't seen a violent crime justifying the use of deadly force in many years. Many of these same people refuse to "live in fear" of the coronav…

I know you're just sharing your anecdote, but the vast majority (over 80%) of Americans live in urban areas. Many cities do in fact see violent crime. Although I don't own a firearm myself, I totally understand why someone else would want one in my neighborhood. Violent crime is not unusual where I live. Don't let your bubble from small town USA distort your view of the entire country.

It's disingenuous as hell to clump "cities" together, as if going to Anacostia in DC is the same as going to Georgetown.

If you live in a city and carry a gun, you're not protecting yourself, you're escalating the violence.

Getting robbed is exceedingly rare anywhere in the US, and trying to stop a robbery with a gun is among the stupidest things a person can do.

Further, robbing someone doesn't mean you should die, and killing someone over property is evil beyond comprehension. No society should support it, and very few do (nearly nowhere in the US, for example).

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#73

Post by tombert »

warmwaffles wrote: post #53
kkielhofner wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes down to it the US has a fear driven culture, down to what essentially becomes paranoia. US violent crime statistics are at near all-time lows. Yet I know many, many people that will not leave their house without at least one firearm. This is in small towns that haven't seen a violent crime justifying the use of deadly force in many years. Many of these same people refuse to "live in fear" of the coronav…

> yet your entire life is accessible to the NSA. I'll bet you money that most Americans are not okay with this either.

They're nominally "not ok" with it, unless it's couched in some piece of legislation like the PATRIOT Act or snuck into a Defense Authorization Act, particularly after a national tragedy happens. Then a lot (a majority?) of Americans will suddenly be ok with the "if you got nothing to hide you got nothing to fear" mantra.

I'm actually not a huge fan when people act like Americans are a a bunch of flag-waving morons, because I think that people who say that are often being extremely reductive to a borderline-offensive level [1], but in this case I do think Americans are uniquely ok with pretending their rights don't exist when they're convinced it's for a greater good.

[1] Disclosure, I'm American

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#75

Post by babypuncher »

dpratt wrote: post #32
zht wrote: post #6

love that Americans are always worried about some sort of national ID/database of citizens being used for nefarious needs

The top entry for the list of cumulative non-disease or old age causes of death in the 20th century is "murdered by own government". Anything we can do to help prevent that is a good thing.

Interesting that you limit this claim to the century that saw two world wars and the largest ethnic extermination program in history. ID systems back then weren't any more thorough than the SSN every American is required to have and use for a litany of purposes today.

I do not really see how replacing your SSN with a public/private key pair that you use to cryptographically sign tax returns, loan applications, or election ballots would make a repeat of World War II any more or less likely; I just see it making identity theft a lot harder. Any government that decides it has the will and power to start a genocide isn't going to be stopped by antiquated blue paper cards.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#77

Post by sofixa »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #60
mmaunder wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a US person with an ITIN and have become a naturalized citizen. ITINs are very different to SSN. Honestly I've found the USA very easy to deal with compared to the UK, France of South Africa where I've lived. The challenge with an ITIN is it blurs into immigration, visa status, whether you are violating visa terms, whether your ITIN - which you can get on a tourist visa - is an indication that you're trying to…

> Honestly I've found the USA very easy to deal with compared to the UK, France of South Africa where I've lived. ??? France as a foreigner: You arrive in the country, your employer already declares all taxes for you. While you may not have a tax ID to log in to impots.gouv.fr yet, everything is already registered in your name (because you gave either your SSN, or your visa number, or anything else). You send a lette…

To be fair, there are some small hurdles - you get issued a temporary SSN quickly, but it might take some time and documents ( like an original of your birth certificate less than 6 months old in French, or translated in France by an authorised translator which is a retarded thing to ask for and for which I've had to explain many obvious things to many French officials - they simply do not have the right to ask for that, any EU country's translation is acceptable by law), but it's fine. You don't even need the regular SSN for taxes or healthcare, actually.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#78

Post by dang »

zht wrote: post #6

love that Americans are always worried about some sort of national ID/database of citizens being used for nefarious needs

Please don't post snarky nationalistic flamebait to HN, regardless of which country or people you have a problem with. It's against the site guidelines because it leads to tedious, nasty flamewars, which we don't want here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30431203 and marked it off topic.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#79

Post by mmaunder »

mdb31 wrote: post #66
mmaunder wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a US person with an ITIN and have become a naturalized citizen. ITINs are very different to SSN. Honestly I've found the USA very easy to deal with compared to the UK, France of South Africa where I've lived. The challenge with an ITIN is it blurs into immigration, visa status, whether you are violating visa terms, whether your ITIN - which you can get on a tourist visa - is an indication that you're trying to…

Sorry, I'm not blurring my ITIN with immigration status or whatever. I have not visited the US since 2004, I have no desire to return, and I have not done any business there since 2002. I just want an ITIN that is, like, actually in my name. Plus the IRS to agree that I do not owe any taxes in the 20-or-so ITINs that they have issued in various misspelled variations of my name. But yeah, to get any clarity, I apparen…

Sounds like there’s a lot more to your story than you’ve shared here.

Re: IRS to adopt Login.gov as user authentication tool

#80

Post by ethbr0 »

mdb31 wrote: post #66
mmaunder wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a US person with an ITIN and have become a naturalized citizen. ITINs are very different to SSN. Honestly I've found the USA very easy to deal with compared to the UK, France of South Africa where I've lived. The challenge with an ITIN is it blurs into immigration, visa status, whether you are violating visa terms, whether your ITIN - which you can get on a tourist visa - is an indication that you're trying to…

Sorry, I'm not blurring my ITIN with immigration status or whatever. I have not visited the US since 2004, I have no desire to return, and I have not done any business there since 2002. I just want an ITIN that is, like, actually in my name. Plus the IRS to agree that I do not owe any taxes in the 20-or-so ITINs that they have issued in various misspelled variations of my name. But yeah, to get any clarity, I apparen…

As someone who uses his middle name, I've experienced only the tiniest bit of what you've gone through, but I can imagine your annoyance.

It's amazing how massive systems often have no viable process for "As an end user, some of the data in the system is incorrect, and I would like to get it corrected."

Once it's in the system via the setup process, it's there. And most people down the line working with it don't even know what system it's originally coming from.

Edit: F.ex. if someone lied about their age when getting their Social Security # (this before issue-at-birth, so it had to be applied for in person), so as to be considered old enough to work, and then decades later wanted to set the record straight to avoid collecting benefits at too young an actual age, they would probably be told by a Social Security employee that doing so was more trouble than it was worth. ... Hypothetically speaking.

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