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A career ending mistake

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Re: A career ending mistake

#41

Post by Supernaut »

crrndngmstk wrote: post #21

To me, this reveals an uncomfortable truth: - I know I'm not technically skilled enough to make it to the higher levels of IC - I know I lack the people skills & charisma to make it to the higher levels of management I'm aware I can improve in both and I accept that, to some extent, it's a laziness and confidence issue. But to some people it seems to come naturally and it's hard not to assume I'm in the majority that…

Agreed, and I hope that the three options presented by this author do not in fact constitute ineluctable destiny, because frankly, none of them appeal to me. I don't want to hustle for business and I'm not sufficiently obsessed with my work to become a "senior individual contributor". I've done some management in the past and I don't want to do it again, because humans are a pain in the ass. I'd like to simply continue doing what I'm doing now, which is writing code for my employer, and mostly being left alone to do so. Can that not be arranged?

Re: A career ending mistake

#42

Post by duxup »

I changed careers at 40+ years old. I'm very happy that I did it.

People have all sorts of constructs / ideas about how careers work (based on experience) or how they think it works, or how they want it to work. I talk to some college graduates who tell me what they're planning for and have ZERO clue what industry they're talking about, their description is unrecognizable to me ... even tho I know it is the one I work in.

I find your experience and paths can vary greatly company to company, even job to job.

We all find truths we want to hold on to about work. I recall trips to the valley where my coworkers where astonished to hear tales of people doing the same work they did, but doing it slightly differently elsewhere in the country. Their view of how that job was done was entirely shaped by the couple places they worked (and everyone seemed to cycle through those couple companies). You'd think these folks though that if you didn't fill out the TPS report right to left that the world would end... I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people fill them out left to right but I didn't feel like telling them that, it might have been too much for them to handle.

" I think there are three main kinds of career destination, at least in the tech industry:

    Independent
    Senior individual contributor (IC)
    Management
"

I have no idea why those are the only destinations ... for an article worried about being happy that seems kind of limited.

The whole article feels very pie in the sky to me.

Re: A career ending mistake

#43

Post by dotancohen »

znq wrote: post #14
giantg2 wrote: post #5

"It's not surprising, then, that many of us find ourselves in less than fully satisfying jobs, with doubtful or non-existent prospects for advancement." Very true. I can't wait for my career to be over. I don't think I'll ever find the position where I feel I belong, so I'll just be miserable anywhere now that I know how broken the system really is.

I hope people don't see this as spam (especially since in the past I've talked a lot about this), but I've started Mobile Jazz (my first company) specifically because I wanted to created a place where I and others feel happy. A place where increasing revenue and profit to the extreme is not the focus, but employee happiness is. We call it "Optimizing for Happiness". We've written a lot about it in our company handboo…

It seems there may be a typo on the linked page:

  How we manage a fully reemote company

Re: A career ending mistake

#44

Post by KineticLensman »

namdnay wrote: post #12
KineticLensman wrote: post #8

> I think there are three main kinds of career destination, at least in the tech industry: > Independent > Senior individual contributor (IC) > Management Sales is an obvious omission.

wouldn't sales be a form of IC ?

> wouldn't sales be a form of IC ?

Not in the sense the article uses: "A senior IC role appeals to those who want to stay technical and keep their hands on the keyboard, or at least the mouse."

Re: A career ending mistake

#45

Post by IceMichael »

What such articles lack is that they assume anyone could do anything, but that's just not true.

To become a really well-paid, influential developer (IC called here, I think), you need to be smart, so that others that are also smart acknowledge you as a very skilled developer. Plus, it's probably not enough to be very smart (which in itself most people are not), but you need some level of politics that is always necessary.

For managers, it's also not a default that promotion will just come with years being somewhere, just untrue.

I would say, although depressing, some people in the industry just don't have it to be successful enough in anything to feel great at their job and there is not always a way to change this. I would never fingerpoint to anyone and say "he cannot make it", I would probably not even recognise that person (apart from myself) but I would say they take up a great portion, unfortunately.

Today's environment enforces performance. Those who cannot perform, will have a hard time...

Re: A career ending mistake

#46

Post by krageon »

giantg2 wrote: post #5

"It's not surprising, then, that many of us find ourselves in less than fully satisfying jobs, with doubtful or non-existent prospects for advancement." Very true. I can't wait for my career to be over. I don't think I'll ever find the position where I feel I belong, so I'll just be miserable anywhere now that I know how broken the system really is.

> I don't think I'll ever find the position where I feel I belong

I had this same feeling (including the despairing tone), until I changed where I work. Perhaps you can find a job in a meaningful industry (public transport, charity, a utility, etc) so that you can be certain you have a material positive impact on other people's lives. This impression helps a lot with work enjoyment.

Re: A career ending mistake

#47

Post by mrits »

I think it is important to mention that managers also don't pick what they want to work on. Often times they are "managing" teams of just a few people. A better term for some of these people would be performance reviewers.

Re: A career ending mistake

#48

Post by belval »

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #30
tdumitrescu wrote: post #27

Feels like the "senior IC" role described in this article corresponds mainly to today's "3-5 years of experience 'senior' engineer" roles. The reality that I've seen and experienced is that advancing beyond that on an IC track means a lot more people/political work, rather than constant "hands on keyboard" coding as described in the article. It's not the same as management, but it's inevitably more meetings and evang…

This is something people seem hesitant to realize: that after a certain point you can only grow your career by "managing" other people. This is true in a lot of (most?) fields. At some point you cannot become more productive as an individual and you need to start coordinating the work of many people if you want to increase your productivity. This can of course take many forms, but the essence is inescapable.

Exactly, FANG-like have done a lot of work to move definitions around to make it seem like "principal engineer" was still an IC position, but all good principal engineer I've interacted with were basically managers with a different name.

Sure they review code and still get their hands dirty from time to time on critical pieces, but there is much more value in using your experience to lead your team in the right direction.

Re: A career ending mistake

#49

Post by rscho »

krageon wrote: post #46
giantg2 wrote: post #5

"It's not surprising, then, that many of us find ourselves in less than fully satisfying jobs, with doubtful or non-existent prospects for advancement." Very true. I can't wait for my career to be over. I don't think I'll ever find the position where I feel I belong, so I'll just be miserable anywhere now that I know how broken the system really is.

> I don't think I'll ever find the position where I feel I belong I had this same feeling (including the despairing tone), until I changed where I work. Perhaps you can find a job in a meaningful industry (public transport, charity, a utility, etc) so that you can be certain you have a material positive impact on other people's lives. This impression helps a lot with work enjoyment.

Healthcare... No, just kidding. Don't do that.

Re: A career ending mistake

#50

Post by dboreham »

rscho wrote: post #49
krageon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think I'll ever find the position where I feel I belong I had this same feeling (including the despairing tone), until I changed where I work. Perhaps you can find a job in a meaningful industry (public transport, charity, a utility, etc) so that you can be certain you have a material positive impact on other people's lives. This impression helps a lot with work enjoyment.

Healthcare... No, just kidding. Don't do that.

Healthcare software..
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