Live data from Hacker News

Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

politico.eu

31–40 of 470 posts

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#32
post #12

Thanks Germans. Paying our gas bill will be fun here in the Netherlands.

Hopefully it'll be temporary; the Dutch government set reducing dependency on gas in motion years ago (electrification of houses, increase of green energy projects), and there are other suppliers who turned their ships around to supply to western Europe instead.

I mean transport by ship will be more expensive than a direct gas pipeline, but hopefully it will be enough to avoid scarcity / loss of gas pressure.

Anyway, it's not really Germany's fault is it? The pipeline came with a lot of strings attached, and with Russia posturing and capturing land, there already were a lot of tensions. It became a political tool. Existing gas pipelines run through the Ukraine, if those became obsolete due to Nord Stream 2, Ukraine would lose a bargaining chip with Europe.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas is one of the few large sources of income in Russia. Reducing the gas trade is one of the few really direct sanctions possible. Even if it comes at a price, it is way better than to start shooting.

This is a reason sanctions don't work as people expect. China will simply buy those valuable gas. I do acknowledge that there would be transportation costs. In the end, Europe will suffer more and China will be happier. And, currently, with the price hike on gas, I think the EU will face more problems. Geopolitics is not a game of morality, rather it's a game of logic. China, the US, and Russia seem to be playing ver…

The gas deal with China is only a fraction of what Europe buys at the moment.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#34
post #11

That is not remotely pulling the plug. This is "thinking about it" again. They already stopped accreditation a few weeks ago, otherwise it would already transport gas as the pipeline is already filled. They just say that they have officially stopped the process which they more or less already did. I think in a year it might come online again if the news cycle is on another topic. Overall it will be much more expensiv…

It is dead for all purposes unless the political climate changes radically. Whatever the Russian plans for a gas supplier to Germany were, they are limited to what the existing pipelines can deliver. I hope, we can reduce the dependency on Russian gas quickly, even if it means the additional effort of shipping LNG from the US or other sources. Mid-term it should be highest priority to get rid of fossil fuels as quick…

It's been dead for a very long time. It's a carrot that Russia was never going to get. If Scholz is smart (which I doubt) he'll restart/keep open the nuclear power plants and cut taxes on gas/electricity for households to neutralise the price hikes.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#35
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recertification now goes through a Green energy minister. This is pretty much pulling the plug.

"green" in so far as having a history of helping the construction of LNG terminals to import american gas.

The point is German Green party has the most anti-authoritarian external political stance of all, and have been opposed to Nord Stream II from the very beginning. They might exchange it for compromise on something else, sure, but will have to explain it to their own party members.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#36
post #34
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is dead for all purposes unless the political climate changes radically. Whatever the Russian plans for a gas supplier to Germany were, they are limited to what the existing pipelines can deliver. I hope, we can reduce the dependency on Russian gas quickly, even if it means the additional effort of shipping LNG from the US or other sources. Mid-term it should be highest priority to get rid of fossil fuels as quick…

It's been dead for a very long time. It's a carrot that Russia was never going to get. If Scholz is smart (which I doubt) he'll restart/keep open the nuclear power plants and cut taxes on gas/electricity for households to neutralise the price hikes.

> restart/keep open the nuclear power plants

Never going to happen. I would expect looking for alternative suppliers of gas, and developing renewables further.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#37
post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

Russia modernized its military with money they got from selling gas and oil to Europe. Finally Germany admitted it and at least will not increase its dependence on Russian gas.

I suspect if Germany would continued to develop its nuclear power rather than shutting it down, Russia would not have money for the new war. But then perhaps Germany was still grateful that Moscow allowed German reunification in 1990 and felt obliged to get gas from Russia.

Note also that Ukraine even after 8 years after loosing Crimea continued to transport Russian gas perfectly aware what Russia spent the money on.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#38
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas is one of the few large sources of income in Russia. Reducing the gas trade is one of the few really direct sanctions possible. Even if it comes at a price, it is way better than to start shooting.

This is a reason sanctions don't work as people expect. China will simply buy those valuable gas. I do acknowledge that there would be transportation costs. In the end, Europe will suffer more and China will be happier. And, currently, with the price hike on gas, I think the EU will face more problems. Geopolitics is not a game of morality, rather it's a game of logic. China, the US, and Russia seem to be playing ver…

> China will simply buy those valuable gas

With what pipeline ?

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#39

That is not remotely pulling the plug. This is "thinking about it" again. They already stopped accreditation a few weeks ago, otherwise it would already transport gas as the pipeline is already filled. They just say that they have officially stopped the process which they more or less already did. I think in a year it might come online again if the news cycle is on another topic. Overall it will be much more expensiv…

Recertification now goes through a Green energy minister. This is pretty much pulling the plug.

It is actually legally questionable that the government can influence that project in the first place. It is accepted in a way but perhaps government will have to pay billions for that choice.

If the greens try to sell shale gas against natural gas as something "green", I think they will get a huge invoice from the economy and from voters. Not even the most naive green voters will take that argument and they do take a lot.

Re: Germany shelves Nord Stream 2 pipeline

#40
post #14
post #5

Quoted post unavailable.

Gas is one of the few large sources of income in Russia. Reducing the gas trade is one of the few really direct sanctions possible. Even if it comes at a price, it is way better than to start shooting.

They've been shooting there for 8 years and no one cared and you think that now it has to be payed for somehow? thats absurd
Post reply on HN