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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#831

Post by sizzle »

ashtonkem wrote: post #808
sizzle wrote: post #804

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Will pihole automatically protect against A/AAAA domains if your blocked domain host file lists are updated regularly?

My experience is that Pihole has been getting less effective over time as more and more ads are being run through the same domain that legitimate content is. When I first installed it it killed ads on my Roku, that doesn’t happen anymore.

What apps on your roku? I had to whitelist a Hulu domain cause it froze when trying to load ads during commercials for example, but when I look at the logs it’s blocking a ton of telemetry and phoning home 24/7 by Roku and Alexa devices.

Are you regularly updating your ad blocking filters? When ads start showing up on my phone I know it’s time to go hit the update button.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#832

Post by gigel82 »

beagle3 wrote: post #462
gigel82 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The server-side "analytics" of 20 years ago was for aggregate reports on popular pages, number of users, their browsers and OSs and maybe their geo-location; solely for the use of the site owners to optimize and whatnot. This abomination Google is proposing is unblockable cross-site tracking of people's activities. That site owners get to see some of that data too is insignificant, their value comes from being able t…

How does google correlate identifiers between different users?

Browser fingerprinting and IP address plus any unique identifiers if you happened to log in on that website.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#833

Post by marcosdumay »

manholio wrote: post #801
marcosdumay wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of those have any chance of helping.

Really, none of them, not even a chance? And you've conjured that conclusion using your extraordinary powers of argumentation, perchance.

Hum. Do you care to explain how any of them could stop the attack on the article? Because they are all aimed at stopping cross domain leaks that have nothing to do with it and fingerprinting that is moot once you share cookies.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#834

Post by nec4b »

tsimionescu wrote: post #794
nec4b wrote: post #792

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you'll get it right next time. Then you'll have true communism, at least until it fails again. Then the kids from the last round of red nobility will call it "capitalism something" and agitate for new true communism again.

If you believe that the USSR (or China, etc.) were actual attempts at socialism or communism, do you also believe they were democracies? Socialism, by definition, is democratic workers' control of the means of production. A socialist dictatorial state is therefore an oxymoron. If the state itself is controlled by a violent maniac (Stalin, Mao, etc.), and the state owns and controls every aspect of society, including…

I know, every time it fails, it's not true communism.

There was a running joke in communist countries on this subject too:

There was once an important communist dignitary who was treating a sick cow. After the cow died, he said: "What a shame, I had so many more ideas to try!".

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#835

Post by sweetbitter »

nickpp wrote: post #485
rndgermandude wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These laws do not ban businesses, they ban business practices. And consumers often win. E.g. laws to ban the business practice of just dumping toxic waste into rivers because it's cheaper were hugely successful - at least in places were they were enforced. On the other hand, there is a danger of regulatory capture, which has to be considered as well... The GDPR does not ban Google, and it does not ban analytics. But,…

Comparing tracking with "dumping toxic waste into rivers" is comparing a breeze with a hurricane. > Google could potentially come up with ways to make a Google Analytics that does abide by the law I personally know of no way to have legal analytics under GDPR, as advised by multiple lawyers.

>I personally know of no way to have legal analytics under GDPR, as advised by multiple lawyers.

If this is truly the case, then these businesses must consider shifting to ethical business models to stay afloat. If not, then competition will steamroll them.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#836

Post by shadowgovt »

denton-scratch wrote: post #830
shadowgovt wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... but "correct operation of your site" is in the eye of a judge and can't be evaluated before someone brings suit, so "better safe than sorry" behavior (at the cost of user time) is completely predictable. ... It's not even clear that it's safe to log IP addresses in the style of a default Apache configuration on a static website without user consent.

> completely predictable It's completely predictable that there are people who don't want to comply. Collecting personal information is a lucrative business. Re. Website logs: in fact it's perfectly clear that a website log retained for the purposes of site management is fine. It's on the face of the regulation.

> It's on the face of the regulation.

Right, collection for the purpose of running the site and all that. But does that mean "I run my site without having ever configured apache's HTTP access logs off the default, but I never read the logs" is fine? Because that sounds like collecting more PII (in the form of stored IP addresses) than is strictly needed to run the site. https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/42438/do-default-apa...

... and that's the problem and the reason that it's probably wise for even site administrators who aren't doing advertising-related data collection to pop the banner. Because the answer to that question is on the other side of a judge's ruling after a very expensive lawsuit. Better safe than sorry.

The law, as written, has entirely too many "The resolution of that ambiguity is on the other side of a judge's ruling after a very expensive lawsuit" for people to have not predicted a million banners. The defaults of the most ancient tools we use to host websites are, under the GDPR, ambiguously compliant.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#837

Post by shadowgovt »

jacquesm wrote: post #828
shadowgovt wrote: post #823

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think we'll simply have to agree to disagree, because we're seeing the same facts and reaching different conclusions. The polio campaign included heavy use of marketing. Its story demonstrates that marketing isn't intrinsically bad; it can be used to bad ends. And any policy separating the baby from the bathwater in this regard will, I think, be a major challenge to implement correctly without risking making someth…

I would much sooner label 'the march of dimes' a charity and a PSA than marketing, but each to their own. Also: note that exactly those things are trotted out by the marketing people to prove that "hey, marketing isn't all evil" when actually they have to reach back decades into history for an example that people will recognize and that has nothing to do with selling un-necessary stuff, which is the thing they are as…

I mean, you can, but then you should probably tell Cindy Rahman, their SVP and Chief Marketing Officer, that her job title makes no sense. And the IRS that the 4.9 million-odd they claimed they spent on advertising on their Federal 990 form in 2020 was mis-labeled.

The March of Dimes is and was in the marketing business.

> actually they have to reach back decades

March of Dimes is still here. It's a modern example as well as a decades-old one. Their primary purpose all but accomplished, they've re-targeted their efforts into information, support of families in NICU, and general patient advocacy.

I could have pulled a more recent example, but the polio campaign has the advantages of lack of ambiguity, common understanding, and the historical perspective to come to general agreement that it was an more-or-less un-alloyed good thing that we can avoid getting bogged down in those dimensions.

Nowadays, I'd point to the billions spent on COVID-19 vaccination advocacy and messaging as the good marketing can do, but I didn't really want to drag the modern-era anti-vaxxers out of the woodwork.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#838

Post by heavyset_go »

Semaphor wrote: post #193
heavyset_go wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By default, I don't run JavaScript. I don't see blocking JS as a problem - in fact, it's a blessing as the web is blinding fast without it - and also most of the ads just simply disappear if JS is not running. Years ago I was on the "people who block JavaScript are crazy" bandwagon, until just loading a single news article online meant waiting for a dozen ads and autoplaying videos to load. I spent more time waitin…

> until just loading a single news article online meant waiting for a dozen ads and autoplaying videos to load. That sounds like you not only didn’t block JS, you also didn’t block ads. Which is a very different argument. I only block 3rd-party JS by default (and that already requires a lot of whitelisting for almost every site that has any interaction) and I don’t have those issues because I also block ads.

There was a period around 2014 - 2016 where even if you used uBlock, ads would still get through. Even now, when I use computers that just have uBlock Origin installed, some ads, and especially autoplaying videos on news sites, still get through.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#839

Post by heavyset_go »

hilbert42 wrote: post #319
paulryanrogers wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tried NoScript for years and it was a pain. Too many of the sites I use need so many domains full of JS. So I think this will vary widely depending on the person and their preferred/needed sites.

It has to be said: there are people who can get by without JavaScript and those who can't. You can almost predict those who can and those who can't by their personality. If you are heavy user of Google's services, Twitter and Facebook as well as many big news outlets and heavy-duty commercial sites then you're the 'JavaScript' type and stopping scripts is definitely not for you! If you are like me and don't have any…

> If you are heavy user of Google's services, Twitter and Facebook as well as many big news outlets and heavy-duty commercial sites then you're the 'JavaScript' type and stopping scripts is definitely not for you!

I, unfortunately, use some of these services and similar ones, too, and it takes a few seconds to enable JS on them, and then the sites will work indefinitely afterwards.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#840

Post by heavyset_go »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #384
eru wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use NoScript with Firefox on Android (together with uBlock Origin). After I unblocked the websites I regularly use (and not the ad delivery domains), it doesn't get in the way that much.

Unblocking the sites you use removes the advantage of not being tracked by Google through tag manager though.

I've had Google Tag Manager blocked for years and sites have worked fine without it.
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