Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks) • Hacker News Board

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#11

Post by jeremyrwelch » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 4:41 AM UTC

mdda wrote: post #5

What NYC needs is a few local cash-outs for entrepreneurs (without them having to move to SV to do so). And then those entrepreneurs to reinvest in local startups. That's the positive reinforcement loop that takes place in SV, and I think that it's required for lift-off to be achieved. As an aside, the UK suffers the same problem : There's a ton of money in London (similar to NYC) chasing financial opportunities, but…

There have already been many cashouts. The sale of Doubleclick led to the creation of Gilt, Panther Express, 10gen. Sale of Right Media led to the creation of AppNexus and other companies, and many angel investments by people like Brian O'kelley, including Invite Media (sold to GOOG). I just left Google after a year to start WHAM Labs, and was able to do so largely because of the cash-out at Invite Media. There are other examples too that I'm forgetting right now (those listed above hit closest to home).

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#12

Post by donohoe » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 4:42 AM UTC

dr_ wrote: post #3

"distractions of city life" is no understatement. What makes NYC quite a fun place to visit or live in also detracts from it becoming a serious contender to the Valley. It's a city of bankers who have, or traditionally have had, tons of money to throw around, and the restaurants, nightclubs and realtors who serve them. Everyone else has been mostly ancillary. Maybe that will change. Maybe one of the startups here wil…

Strongly disagree.

Seattle has distractions. SF has distractions. Any city with population > 200,00 has its share of distractions. Might be booze, and parties, or it might be hiking and the outdoors.

I lived and worked in NYC for 10 years. Bankers? Yeah, a big part of the citys blood. However they were always secondary to the tech scene which was primarily startup and media.

  The reported advantages of NYC - such as the ability 
  to just roll into the offices of media or advertising 
  companies or fashion houses, so you can cut deals with 
  them - are largely myths.

Nope. Seen it first hand. It happens from my viewpoint, not sure how prolific but not a 'myth'

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#13

Post by pitdesi » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 4:44 AM UTC

tryitnow wrote: post #4

I think the negatives Graham cites outweigh the positives. Ultimately, "nerdy visionaries" win out over "rapacious dealmakers." The culture is just too different and I just don't mean the business culture. It's reflected in all walks of life. For example, let's take dating. In NYC if you're not making money or on the very fast track to doing so then you might as well not exist. In my experience dating in the Bay Area…

I think the point is that some businesses make more sense in New York - some businesses really need rapacious dealmakers and not fierce coders/nerdy visionaries.

Dating has changed a lot, even in the past couple of years. Being part of a startup is cooler now, everywhere. Geek is in.

See: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20110924/ISSUE03/3092...

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#14

Post by jbooth » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 4:46 AM UTC

tryitnow wrote: post #4

I think the negatives Graham cites outweigh the positives. Ultimately, "nerdy visionaries" win out over "rapacious dealmakers." The culture is just too different and I just don't mean the business culture. It's reflected in all walks of life. For example, let's take dating. In NYC if you're not making money or on the very fast track to doing so then you might as well not exist. In my experience dating in the Bay Area…

As far as culture, NYC's the most entrepreneurial place in the country, period. Half of the stuff I buy comes from a small business, whereas most of the country is buying from big box stores, chain restaurants, etc. Every cab driver, coffee stand and hot dog stand is a small business.

And as far as dating, man, half of brooklyn is underemployed with a band and a startup idea. Just get some flannel shirts and jean-shorts, you're good to go with that story. If you're actually legitimate about it, all the better.

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#15

Post by avree » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 4:50 AM UTC

donohoe wrote: post #12

dr_ wrote: post #3

"distractions of city life" is no understatement. What makes NYC quite a fun place to visit or live in also detracts from it becoming a serious contender to the Valley. It's a city of bankers who have, or traditionally have had, tons of money to throw around, and the restaurants, nightclubs and realtors who serve them. Everyone else has been mostly ancillary. Maybe that will change. Maybe one of the startups here wil…

Strongly disagree. Seattle has distractions. SF has distractions. Any city with population > 200,00 has its share of distractions. Might be booze, and parties, or it might be hiking and the outdoors. I lived and worked in NYC for 10 years. Bankers? Yeah, a big part of the citys blood. However they were always secondary to the tech scene which was primarily startup and media. The reported advantages of NYC - such as t…

As someone who's lived on both coasts, I think that the major difference between NY and SF 'distractions' is that the West Coast distractions are generally more 'related' to tech.

When I go out to any random bar in SOMA, I'm likely to meet mainly tech/startup people. It's a very insular community.

In NYC, you're more likely to meet a wider breadth of people—which can be good or bad, depending on what you're looking for and what kind of person you are.

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#16

Post by dr_ » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 4:51 AM UTC

donohoe wrote: post #12

dr_ wrote: post #3

"distractions of city life" is no understatement. What makes NYC quite a fun place to visit or live in also detracts from it becoming a serious contender to the Valley. It's a city of bankers who have, or traditionally have had, tons of money to throw around, and the restaurants, nightclubs and realtors who serve them. Everyone else has been mostly ancillary. Maybe that will change. Maybe one of the startups here wil…

Strongly disagree. Seattle has distractions. SF has distractions. Any city with population > 200,00 has its share of distractions. Might be booze, and parties, or it might be hiking and the outdoors. I lived and worked in NYC for 10 years. Bankers? Yeah, a big part of the citys blood. However they were always secondary to the tech scene which was primarily startup and media. The reported advantages of NYC - such as t…

Bankers were secondary to the tech scene? Maybe for a couple of years in the dot com era, but otherwise I'm not sure which NYC you are referring to. We are not just talking >200K, we are talking 8-9 million people, a mix of bankers, media folk, fashion folk, diplomats, tech companies, and the usual realtors, doctors and lawyers found in most cities. That's a big mix, and makes it difficult to stand out.

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#17

Post by grimtrigger » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 4:52 AM UTC

After the talk, I had a lot of time to meditate about this on the train back home.

Yes, I think it'll happen, but it won't look anything like the valley.

When I was aiming at a finance job, I had two recruiters from two separate banks tell me one of the qualities they look for is an entrepreneurial spirit. Of course, they want you to be entrepreneurial with other peoples money and forfeit the reward to your employer. This is the attitude that creates a city overflowing with smart, ambitious, miserable people. Thats a powderkeg ready to be lit.

They key will be getting the financial services industry on board. If there was an incubator run by Goldman Sachs, kids at NYU and Columbia would start talking about startups like the kids at Stanfard do.

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#18

Post by bcantrill » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 5:02 AM UTC

In my experience, the only people who weigh in on these debates are those who do not live in Silicon Valley -- like any epicenter for anything, those of us who have made our careers here hardly give a damn how the rest of the world compares themselves to us. (Or to put this another way: New Yorkers do not sit around debating if or that New York is the world's epicenter for finance.) But as someone who has grown slightly sick of the pro-NYC mania, I feel obliged to enter the fray -- if only because Silicon Valley is being misunderstood at an essential level.

While I agree that New York has displaced Boston, it is no threat to Silicon Valley's crown: New York does adequately at some variants of software service startups (e.g., the Foursquares of the world), but it is missing virtually every other element of the ecosystem. There is no microprocessor company in NYC. There is no network equipment provider in NYC. There is no computer company in NYC. There is no handset maker in NYC. There is no cloud company in NYC. Yes, Google may have a large presence in NYC, but Intel has a large presence in Portland; a single company's large presence cannot in and of itself create an ecosystem. And that ecosystem is the difference between having a "vibrant tech scene" and being the world's epicenter for technological innovation; NYC may be the former, but is unlikely to ever displace Silicon Valley as the latter.

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#19

Post by jeremyrwelch » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 5:13 AM UTC

bcantrill wrote: post #18

In my experience, the only people who weigh in on these debates are those who do not live in Silicon Valley -- like any epicenter for anything, those of us who have made our careers here hardly give a damn how the rest of the world compares themselves to us. (Or to put this another way: New Yorkers do not sit around debating if or that New York is the world's epicenter for finance.) But as someone who has grown sligh…

The question at hand is not "Does NYC compare to the valley," but instead "is the NYC tech boom sustainable."

NYC tech sustainable? Yes. NYC = SV? No. And that's a good thing.

Also, Appnexus is a cloud company.

Re: Is New York's Tech Boom Sustainable? (PG asks)

#20

Post by pitdesi » Tue, Sep 27, 2011, 5:15 AM UTC

bcantrill wrote: post #18

In my experience, the only people who weigh in on these debates are those who do not live in Silicon Valley -- like any epicenter for anything, those of us who have made our careers here hardly give a damn how the rest of the world compares themselves to us. (Or to put this another way: New Yorkers do not sit around debating if or that New York is the world's epicenter for finance.) But as someone who has grown sligh…

I wholeheartedly agree that NYC is no threat to Silicon Valley. That being said, for my individual startup, why the hell should I care if there is a microprocessor company, network equipment provider, computer company, etc etc etc? I can't think of very many of the hot startups discussed on this forum where it matters to have those things in the vicinity.