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I was wrong, we need crypto

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Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#71

Post by csee »

woodrow wrote: post #42
csee wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why must we choose between doing nothing on the one hand and freezing assets without due process on the other? Why can't we just have a functioning liberal democracy that arrests the purported criminals quickly, charges them with a crime, and tries them in a court under the full scrutiny of the voting public?

Remember that these financial controls are about limiting access to donations received from outside of Canada —- over half of the contributions to GiveSendGo were _not_ from Canadians. Canada has the right (just as the US does) to limit foreign influence in its domestic affairs and its democratically elected government is exercising that right.

It seems that's not the scope of these measures:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10535361/Canadian-M...

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#72

Post by lowkey »

woodrow wrote: post #69
lowkey wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the freezing of accounts wasn't limited to foreign donors, was it? It wasn't even limited to those who actually broke any laws. Multiple incidents have been reported by Canadians who donated as little as $50 to the protest BEFORE it was declared illegal, having their bank accounts frozen without any formal charges. Given that they are not even charging these people with crimes, they are denied due process and the…

Canada obviously doesn't have jurisdiction over foreign donors, so depending on how GiveSendGo implemented their money transmission flows it may not have been possible for the government to distinguish between domestic and foreign financing sources. I agree that domestic money flowing within Canada (to e.g. support Charter-protected actions of others) should not be impeded without a higher degree of scrutiny. This sa…

I upvoted your comment as I completely agree. As a smaller nation with a large and powerful neighbor to the south, it is important for Canada to protect against foreign influence in our politics and particularly our elections.

I do wish we would apply those foreign influence and foreign funding rules more consistently though. A few years ago, the prime minister in question, accepted millions in funding from Chinese investors to his WE charity. In order to avoid having to defend those actions he even prorogued parliament.

It would also be nice to limit foreign investment in Canadian real estate so that more Canadians could afford a home in their native land, but I might be dreaming.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#74

Post by erulabs »

dylkil wrote: post #55
qalmakka wrote: post #52

The problem with cryptocurrencies is not the _idea_ per se, it's that every current and proposed implementation is deeply flawed and utterly fails to deliver on what it promises, to the point that crypto mostly stands afloat only as a mean to enable economical speculation and to facilitate unregulated and illegal transactions. I also agree with the idea that teleportation and faster-than-light travel would be extreme…

The second problem is some of the smartest people in the world rather point out its flaws than recognise the potential and help fix the flaws

I've long stopped believing the smartest people in the world accomplish much at all besides doing extremely well in systems others have designed. Certainly the vast amount of time I've spent thinking about monetary policy offers me no real gains in my life. I know a group of medical doctors and they are brilliant, but they are brilliant critics.

They are smarter than me - they focus on what matters. Small things, that they can control. God forbid the world does fly apart at the seams, and maybe some of these epistemological economic thoughts will have been worth thinking - I sure hope it doesn't happen and the smartest people can continue living in tiny boxes. It means a better world, a more stable world. And we do need smart people studying a set of ligaments their whole lives.

I find it no surprise that those of us who grew up in extremely chaotic situations tend to think 'bigger' and have a harder time thinking 'smaller'. I do not know the world will remain stable enough to support my career - but all the doctors I know are sure of it.

You'll get replies from very well employed, very smart people, who can probably write you an excellent simulation of our discussion, but who will refuse to conceptualize an abstract theory of value, or a world were currency creation happens in a slightly different way. Why would they? It's of no practical value unless the world ends - and you don't want the world to end, do you?

People who fought for monarchy because the alternative is chaos were probably smart people. People who fought for heliocentricism were probably very smart, but didn't feel like uprooting the foundation of their world view. Being dumb enough to think thoughts like "well, but what if", in the face of replies like "but it hasn't in a long time!" is only useful if only a tiny subset of us do it. The right strategy for most humans is to ignore that kind of talk. So be it.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#75

Post by lowkey »

Comevius wrote: post #67
lowkey wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Notably, the War Measures Act - which is the original act that was rebranded as the Emergencies Act in 1988 - has only ever been put into effect 3 times in history. 1. WWI 2. WWII 3. FLQ Crisis - an incident that included the kidnapping of federal ministers by a terrorist organization By contrast, this protest has been incredibly peaceful when compared to other similar protests or occupations. There is a debate happe…

This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Holding critical infrastructure hostage, threatening the government and harassing people is not peaceful. Invoking the Emergencies Act after 3 weeks was warranted after the police failed doing it's job. The government did not have a clear picture or control over the situation. A foreign organization could have used it to supply these people, whic…

> This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium.

Assuming you are referring to the January 6th insurrection incident, I don't think the two are comparable. What happened in Canada could fairly be described as an occupation and would therefore be most similar to the Occupy Wall Street movement. Notably the Occupy movement, despite being equally frustrating for the local and national government as well as the civilian population, was allowed to go on for close to 2 years.

I don't claim that Canada should have allowed this protest/occupation to go on for that long, but I think it is clear that had the Ottawa police had the will to take action, the existing laws were sufficient to put an end to any illegal activity.

Peaceful protest, not occupation, is lawful under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So my hypothesis is that the Canadian Government implemented the Emergency Measures act in order to suspend the Charter so they could suppress an otherwise lawful activity.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#76

Post by allisdust »

The thing with democracies is, their rot and death is often not visible from within the democracy. As a sad spectator outside the North America, I can confidently predict the end of democracy in this continent is continuing at a rapid pace.

Due to the nature of resentment, you can never extinguish it by more ruthless measures. Small periodic eruptions is what keeps a volcano from having a bigger bang. When you close every vent, you just create a lot more pressure inside. My prediction would be civil war in both countries in coming decades if the current schism between the left and right doesn't get filled soon. Media and politicians started this fire for their own gains and its raging in every heart without anyone in control.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#77

Post by joshuamorton »

lowkey wrote: post #75
Comevius wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Holding critical infrastructure hostage, threatening the government and harassing people is not peaceful. Invoking the Emergencies Act after 3 weeks was warranted after the police failed doing it's job. The government did not have a clear picture or control over the situation. A foreign organization could have used it to supply these people, whic…

> This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Assuming you are referring to the January 6th insurrection incident, I don't think the two are comparable. What happened in Canada could fairly be described as an occupation and would therefore be most similar to the Occupy Wall Street movement. Notably the Occupy movement, despite being equally frustrating for the local and national government…

> Notably the Occupy movement, despite being equally frustrating for the local and national government as well as the civilian population, was allowed to go on for close to 2 years.

Politically this is probably true, but ows never as far as I recall blocked main roads, and certainly not for extended periods. Whatever you think the legitimacy of that tactic is, it's not the same.

And fwiw the ottowa police claimed that they didn't have the resources: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/16/ottawa-protest..., though I too question that claim.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#79

Post by wwweston »

gorwell wrote: post #60
Comevius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

One idiot or provocateur in a sea of tens of thousands does not override the 99%. That's an absurd, lazy smear. What this episode makes clear is that many people actually love authoritarianism as long as the actions of the state in the moment appear to align with their own ideology. Next time it won't, which is why it must be resisted on a principled basis. This precedent being set is a dictator's dream come true and…

> One idiot or provocateur in a sea of tens of thousands does not override the 99%.

When the blockade is significantly funded from outside the country the policies are supposed to be about [0], when effective mechanics of the protest aren't merely speech but crippling trade, when the stated substance is basically claiming the privilege of unrestrained motion across international borders without regard to vaccination status, even if it were true that "one idiot or provocateur in a sea of tens of thousands" were engaging in fundamentally unacceptable (e.g. nazi) performance, there's still be plenty of reasons for sensible and restrained government authorities to intervene.

> This precedent being set is a dictator's dream

Which precedent? That authorities might use authority to stop trade disruption?

Seizure of property from people involved in that disruption? Bigger and far more routine problems in terms of civil forfeiture.

Needing to be vaccinated to cross a border? You may want to look at precedents established over the last century or two and ask yourself why the totalitarian catastrophe you seem to be imagining has only crossed some kind of threshold now, almost as if it isn't coming.

[0] https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/where-things-stand-majo...

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#80

Post by Elinvynia »

gorwell wrote: post #60
Comevius wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

One idiot or provocateur in a sea of tens of thousands does not override the 99%. That's an absurd, lazy smear. What this episode makes clear is that many people actually love authoritarianism as long as the actions of the state in the moment appear to align with their own ideology. Next time it won't, which is why it must be resisted on a principled basis. This precedent being set is a dictator's dream come true and…

> One idiot or provocateur in a sea of tens of thousands does not override the 99%. That's an absurd, lazy smear.

Do you feel the same about the BLM protests?

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