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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#731

Post by jacquesm »

mbesto wrote: post #726
jacquesm wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you say "telling each other" what do you mean exactly? I don't think we need to discuss the meaning of words that are in the top 5000 commonly used dictionary words here. > Do you think businesses just magically get talked about with zero investment in marketing dollars? Yes. It's called word-of-mouth and it is how it has always been done.

> I don't think we need to discuss the meaning of words that are in the top 5000 commonly used dictionary words here. Good. We're on the same page then. Snarky response not required but okay. > Yes. It's called word-of-mouth and it is how it has always been done. I don't know where to start with how to respond, but I'll bite: Let's magically go back to the gold rush in the US. You're traveling from New York and arriv…

> You walk through town looking for a vendor and notice a guy with a megaphone is yelling to the crowd about Gold Supply Inc offering better prices on pans.

Which may be true. Or not. And they may be crappy pans, or not. And that's my point: all that yelling just muddies the water, it's like a mountain of 'fake reviews' and no way to pick up the signal any more because of all of the noise. Marketing mostly lies.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#733

Post by User23 »

danuker wrote: post #704
walterbell wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this extension actively clicks on ads which may trigger payments, how do ad-fraud services classify endpoints running this extension? Could they consider this malware and add the client IP to blacklists?

Sure, and perhaps also the accounts of users running this while logged-in. Have contingency plans if you run this and your, say, GMail account is blocked.

Anyone still using gmail today for anything other than throwaway purposes is behaving foolishly.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#734

Post by rplnt »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #679
walterbell wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this extension actively clicks on ads which may trigger payments, how do ad-fraud services classify endpoints running this extension? Could they consider this malware and add the client IP to blacklists?

> Could they consider this malware and add the client IP to blacklists? Do malware developers consider the countermeasure softwate created to resist them to be malware as well?

If we were to split what malware does into Infection (getting into the system), Avoidance (hiding from system, AV, or attacking AV) and work (sniffing, sending spam, etc..) then the Avoidance would be by far the biggest and most complicated (and most interesting) category.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#735

Post by scoutt »

slightwinder wrote: post #659
jacquesm wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing is almost by definition not going to act ethically: their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one, and the KPIs by which marketing departments are run are proof positive of that. Nobody starts off with 'what would be the natural limit of our product sales', instead they start off with 'what is the total addressable market and how do we maximize our fraction of that' implying that if…

> Marketing is almost by definition not going to act ethically: their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one That's very single-minded. Marketing mainly informs about a product, which obviously also works even if you already have the need for it. And it can also help in realizing a specific need which the customer has not pinpointed yet. That's the whole point of acting ethically, to support,…

What would be the utmost, top dream of a Marketing team? I think it is to be able to read my mind. Followed by being able to project an ad into my retina (if writing into my mind is not possible).

If the above is not possible, then they will come to analyze my behavior online.

It's truly sad...

Paraphrasing The Godfather 3 "Finance is a gun, politics is knowing when to pull the trigger" and I would add "marketing is knowing HOW to pull the trigger".

> And it can also help in realizing a specific need which the customer has not pinpointed yet

Don't you love cold calls, spam and pop-ups?

Marketing helped to ruin the latest and finest revolution of our time, that is, the Internet.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#736

Post by [deleted] »

y42 wrote: post #688
jeroenhd wrote: post #646

This kind of data collection abuse is why I think we need more addons like AdNauseam [1]. Unlike uBlock Origin, it's not available from the Chrome web store anymore, which is a good sign that Google hates these types of addons more than they hate simple blockers. Blocking A/AAAA domains with custom URLs to prevent tracking is almost impossible, so instead let's flood the trackers with useless, incorrect data that's n…

I worked for a agency a couple of years ago, when, out of the blue, tracked data contained tons of random data instead of the expected UTM parameters. It took us a while to figure out what was happening. It was some kind of obfuscating plugin that was messing up well known tracking parameters. What I want to say is: stuff like that could actually cause a lot of fun on the other side.

[deleted]

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#737

Post by shkkmo »

adonovan wrote: post #693
itsoktocry wrote: post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because the reason you can't get anywhere without a car these days is marketing campaigns by the automobile and oil industry We aren't all brainless automatons. Not everything is a giant conspiracy. Have you considered that there are people that actually like cars and find them convenient and useful? Cars and the highway system completely changed the course of commerce in this country. Sure, that has lead to some p…

I was about to reply that this is exactly what happened in L.A. in the 1940s and suggest that you look up the "Great American Streetcar Conspiracy", my favorite example of monopolistic conspiracy. But apparently much has changed since I last did that myself, and now the conspiracy seems to be little more than... fake news. Unless of course we're in the midst of a "Great American Streetcar Conspiracy"-Conspiracy Consp…

That is a bit of a misleading way of putting it. There was indeed a "street car conspiracy" and it even led to criminal convictions. The interpretation that this conspiracy was intended to kill off street cars is harder to justify since street cars were already struggling in the aftermath the great depression andany were bankrupt. I do think that the actions of GM et all did accelerate the decline of the street car but the urban myth about is "Great American Streetcar Company" is generally overblown.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#738

Post by shkkmo »

itsoktocry wrote: post #668
jonathanstrange wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to speak of a promised sense of freedom you could only ever possibly obtain by driving around in the right kind of car and smoking the right brand of cigarettes.

> a promised sense of freedom you could only ever possibly obtain by driving around in the right kind of car You do realize that having the ability to hop in your car and drive wherever you want to go without having to report to anyone provides an incredible amount of freedom, right?

You do realize that navigating infastucture designed exclusively for cars without one has a much larger negative impact on your freedom?

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#739

Post by mbesto »

jacquesm wrote: post #731
mbesto wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think we need to discuss the meaning of words that are in the top 5000 commonly used dictionary words here. Good. We're on the same page then. Snarky response not required but okay. > Yes. It's called word-of-mouth and it is how it has always been done. I don't know where to start with how to respond, but I'll bite: Let's magically go back to the gold rush in the US. You're traveling from New York and arriv…

> You walk through town looking for a vendor and notice a guy with a megaphone is yelling to the crowd about Gold Supply Inc offering better prices on pans. Which may be true. Or not. And they may be crappy pans, or not. And that's my point: all that yelling just muddies the water, it's like a mountain of 'fake reviews' and no way to pick up the signal any more because of all of the noise. Marketing mostly lies.

I don't understand your point?

You think that the average person:

- Be fully educated on every product and service available to them in every market they encounter

- Spend the time to speak to N amount of people via word of mouth and understand how many N amount of conversations are required to have the confidence to buy the best product (in terms of value, feature set, price, etc.) for the item they're looking for

- Discover products and services that they didn't know existed but may solve their problem in a novel way

All without any marketing/advertising interaction? And that this is somehow going to magically make buying decisions more clear (i.e. not muddy)?

Sorry but that is hilariously out of touch with reality...

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#740

Post by GoblinSlayer »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #541
jacquesm wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marketing is almost by definition not going to act ethically: their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one, and the KPIs by which marketing departments are run are proof positive of that. Nobody starts off with 'what would be the natural limit of our product sales', instead they start off with 'what is the total addressable market and how do we maximize our fraction of that' implying that if…

> their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one This is reductionist. Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? In a sense. But in another sense, it was broadcasting a better way of being. Marketing doesn’t have to be evil. Saying all marketing is evil is sort of a cop out for the people who do it badly.

Marketing is basically hacking, so yes, it doesn't have to be evil. Apparently there are a few white hats.
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