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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the article mentions that Google recommends against using Cname for this, and using A records instead.

> Google recommends against using Cname for this So use Cname? :D

Sites want the ads to get through, right? So they’re going to do the thing that makes that happen: A records.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#712
post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? People were telling each other about these. > Marketing doesn’t have to be evil. No, indeed it doesn't. But as a rule it definitely appears to be. It's a bit like arsenic: it doesn't have to be negative but usually it is. > Saying all marketing is evil is sort of a cop out for the people who do it badly. If 99% of the people engaging i…

> People were telling each other about these. I've seen this argument a lot, especially by technically minded folks. When you say "telling each other" what do you mean exactly? Do you think businesses just magically get talked about with zero investment in marketing dollars? I get the sense that lots of people in the HN community don't realize when they read an article from that this is marketing dollars at work. > B…

> When you say "telling each other" what do you mean exactly?

I don't think we need to discuss the meaning of words that are in the top 5000 commonly used dictionary words here.

> Do you think businesses just magically get talked about with zero investment in marketing dollars?

Yes. It's called word-of-mouth and it is how it has always been done.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since this extension actively clicks on ads which may trigger payments, how do ad-fraud services classify endpoints running this extension? Could they consider this malware and add the client IP to blacklists?

> Could they consider this malware and add the client IP to blacklists? Do malware developers consider the countermeasure softwate created to resist them to be malware as well?

They absolutely do.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#714

This kind of data collection abuse is why I think we need more addons like AdNauseam [1]. Unlike uBlock Origin, it's not available from the Chrome web store anymore, which is a good sign that Google hates these types of addons more than they hate simple blockers. Blocking A/AAAA domains with custom URLs to prevent tracking is almost impossible, so instead let's flood the trackers with useless, incorrect data that's n…

Since this extension actively clicks on ads which may trigger payments, how do ad-fraud services classify endpoints running this extension? Could they consider this malware and add the client IP to blacklists?

Good. If it is a shopping or some other service that charges money, then they lose business.

If it is some service that you have no choice but to use, but relies on network effects (like Facebook Events), then you can just send a screenshot to the interested party and they Might consider not using a service that is broken for other people.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>a huge net positive A huge net positive for buisness, that's for sure. There are currently over 25,000 lobbyists in Brussels and Berlin [1]. As for the citizens, that is up to debate, and highly individual. Truckers in Sweden, for example, that currently find themselves competing with truckers from all over europe who also fill the tank in countries with far cheaper gas, cant really be said to enjoy positive gain fr…

I am not denying that there are problems for truckers in Sweden caused by open borders to other EU-countries and that those problems should be fixed. However, without EU there would probably be a lot less stuff to truck around.

No post body was provided.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#716
post #553
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure about this notion of the 'good of society'. If you believe that the 'good of society' is not what voters want, why bother with democracy at all? (Slightly besides the point: I actually do agree that people behave like idiots at the ballot booth and don't know what is good for them in this context. Luckily, people tend to be much more savvy when voting with their wallets or their feet. And as a society we…

> Luckily, people tend to be much more savvy when voting with their wallets or their feet. And as a society we would be well advised to encourage these latter two. The problem with voting with your dollars is that people with more dollars get more votes. The problem with voting with your feet is that only some people can afford to move. If you want "just let the rich decide", why dress it up in fancy words?

As much as possible, people should decide what to do with their dollars.

> The problem with voting with your dollars is that people with more dollars get more votes.

Eh, the biggest and most successful companies on the planet cater to mass markets. The system seems to work fairly well for average people. (And we all suspect the most important politicians cater to tiny elites.) Also, using your dollars to vote means you lose those dollars. So rich people can vote each dollar only once, just like everyone else.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#717

This kind of data collection abuse is why I think we need more addons like AdNauseam [1]. Unlike uBlock Origin, it's not available from the Chrome web store anymore, which is a good sign that Google hates these types of addons more than they hate simple blockers. Blocking A/AAAA domains with custom URLs to prevent tracking is almost impossible, so instead let's flood the trackers with useless, incorrect data that's n…

Since this extension actively clicks on ads which may trigger payments, how do ad-fraud services classify endpoints running this extension? Could they consider this malware and add the client IP to blacklists?

I wish, but I haven't stopped receiving ads yet.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#718
post #700

This kind of data collection abuse is why I think we need more addons like AdNauseam [1]. Unlike uBlock Origin, it's not available from the Chrome web store anymore, which is a good sign that Google hates these types of addons more than they hate simple blockers. Blocking A/AAAA domains with custom URLs to prevent tracking is almost impossible, so instead let's flood the trackers with useless, incorrect data that's n…

Yup. I've used NoScript for years, and one of the most frequently appearing sites that remain blocked is googletagmanager. I totally second the sentiment that this is merely minimal defense against hostile 'service providers'. This avalanche of tracking libraries is now almost as toxic as email spam in its worst-controlled days. Much of the internet is literally unusable, as pages take dozens of seconds to minutes to…

In my experience the most popular noscript trackers are googletagmanager and facebook, so with just two domains you can get a lot. But e.g. bloomberg uses full first party proxy for facebook pixel with pseudorandom base url, it's difficult to block even by url; I suspect they duplicate the page request to facebook too, but this is unobservable on client side. Hopefully this solution doesn't scale well.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! A company's goal is profit and most of the time, that does not align with the customer's goals. Amazon's goal is to sell me the highest margin item, I want the best value or highest quality. I have very limited information about which items are a good value or high quality, so why should amazon have the tools to most effectively steer me towards high-margin items? They exist to provide us a service and we gr…

> I have very limited information about which items are a good value or high quality, so why should amazon have the tools to most effectively steer me towards high-margin items? They exist to provide us a service and we grant them the right to make a small % of profit while doing it. Not the other way around! As a small aside, The capitalist's answer is that regulating companies to prevent them from steering to the m…

Keep in mind that capitalists have all the power and a lot of time and incentive to rationalize the status quo.

The assumption in this argument is that consumers are able to observe and quantify the harm of tracking more effectively than regulators could create laws against data collection.

Personally I think the success of either one comes down to cultural factors that are currently stacked in favor of advertisers.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By default, I don't run JavaScript. I don't see blocking JS as a problem - in fact, it's a blessing as the web is blinding fast without it - and also most of the ads just simply disappear if JS is not running. Years ago I was on the "people who block JavaScript are crazy" bandwagon, until just loading a single news article online meant waiting for a dozen ads and autoplaying videos to load. I spent more time waitin…

Tried NoScript for years and it was a pain. Too many of the sites I use need so many domains full of JS. So I think this will vary widely depending on the person and their preferred/needed sites.

> Too many of the sites I use need so many domains full of JS

I hear you, but I wonder if you are being honest with yourself when you use the word need.

At this point, I view Google and Facebook as the equivalent of loan sharks. A loan shark does provide a service, but most people shouldn't use one.

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