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I was wrong, we need crypto

world.hey.com

21–30 of 336 posts

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#21

... we need crypto Did someone say otherwise? Crypto is an attempt to fulfill a broad yearning for financial freedom. The problem is, as it currently exists --- it just doesn't deliver. Crypto doesn't displace trust, it misplaces it. Instead of trusting government and regulated banks, you end up trusting the unregulated gatekeepers to the block chain --- the exchanges. Who is making sure these gatekeepers are not sel…

>you end up trusting the unregulated gatekeepers to the block chain --- the exchanges.

how exactly are exchanges gatekeepers? blockchains would function completely fine without exchanges. In fact, on chain exchanges like uniswap and 0x require zero trust whatsoever.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#22
This is nonsense. Canada is starting to classify cryptos as assets [1], and they already are looking into some accounts related to the protests [2]. It's true that you could hide it well, but you could also do so by having gold bars in a bank vault.

[1] https://fcpablog.com/2021/06/21/canadian-courts-assist-crypt... [2] https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/02/16/canada-sanctions-...

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#23
post #22

This is nonsense. Canada is starting to classify cryptos as assets [1], and they already are looking into some accounts related to the protests [2]. It's true that you could hide it well, but you could also do so by having gold bars in a bank vault. [1] https://fcpablog.com/2021/06/21/canadian-courts-assist-crypt... [2] https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/02/16/canada-sanctions-...

Your comment is nonsense. They can seize your gold in a bank vault. They cannot forge a signature transferring your crypto held on your metamask. They would need first physical access to your computer and secondly your metamask password.

They can classify it all they want, but it is completely outside of the control of their legacy systems.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#24
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a mistake to think this article is just a rehash of the classic arguments for crypto. The Canadian response is the first piece of hard evidence we have seen that such arguments aren't just fanciful theoretical speculations that could never apply to wealthy, liberal democracies. It is good and useful to point this out. Even if the rest of the piece is ideologically motivated, we shouldn't then close off to this i…

>The Canadian response is the first piece of hard evidence For two decades the US has frozen and seized accounts in the hundreds of thousands -- billions of dollars in assets -- often with little oversight or checks. Civil forfeiture is rampant. Whole political groups have been declared "terrorist affiliated" and any correlation at all can lead to extremely unpleasant outcomes. No fly lists are flippant and casual. A…

You are correct that freezing accounts and assets is far from unprecedented. It has been used (and abused) as a tool against suspected drug dealers, money launderers, ISIS supporters, and so on.

The difference here is its blank check authority against a reasonable protest objective as a response to certain bad actors within that broader objective and movement. Not everyone involved is creating criminal levels of noise pollution, trying to burn down apartment buildings, or blocking trade routes. Many of them just want good faith protest. If we could just arrest the bad faith actors quickly, and allow the good faith actors to continue protesting, we can simultaneously protect the right to valid protest while protecting the community within which the protest is happening. When you start freezing accounts without due process, that all flies out the window. This is what is importantly different about this particular action by Canada. It is uniquely chilling to the right to political protest in a way that unduly seizing the assets of suspected drug dealers isn't (although I am very much against that too).

The BLM protest movement can be used as an analogy. Would it be reasonable for all BLM support to be effectively criminalized by carte blanche freezing of accounts of people "involved"? No, of course not. The reasonable thing is to arrest those people who are looting or setting up CHOP or whatever, and to allow the real protestors to keep protesting.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#25
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to block international borders, they harassed [people] Then arrest the specific people doing this and charge them with a crime.

You're 100% right. The moment someone blasted their horn -- much less their modified, multi-horn noise-terrorism device -- they should have been warned, fined, and then charged/arrested for mischief. The moment they blocked roadways illegally with regulated, commercial vehicles, they should have been warned, fined, and then charged/arrested, the vehicle towed. The moment the first person stopped near a bridge they sh…

Why would you treat this group of protestors so much more harshly than ones that, say, block railways? Also, I think a lot of what you're saying is very narrow minded. To get a group of people together to protest anything is a miracle and to expect them all to behave like their some sort of hive mind is just willful ignorance. There will always be bad actors, even with proper leadership. I think you need to spend some time reflecting on your world views or how you view groups of people and compare these protestors with others in Canadian history. I also think your news sources are a little biased.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#26
post #23
post #22

This is nonsense. Canada is starting to classify cryptos as assets [1], and they already are looking into some accounts related to the protests [2]. It's true that you could hide it well, but you could also do so by having gold bars in a bank vault. [1] https://fcpablog.com/2021/06/21/canadian-courts-assist-crypt... [2] https://www.coindesk.com/policy/2022/02/16/canada-sanctions-...

Your comment is nonsense. They can seize your gold in a bank vault. They cannot forge a signature transferring your crypto held on your metamask. They would need first physical access to your computer and secondly your metamask password. They can classify it all they want, but it is completely outside of the control of their legacy systems.

They can seize the gold only if they know where it is. And to convert crypto back into Canadian dollars, you will need to go through the "legacy" banking system at any substantial amount, where it can be flagged with standard tools and you would be arrested.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#27
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Why must we choose between doing nothing on the one hand and freezing assets without due process on the other? Why can't we just have a functioning liberal democracy that arrests the purported criminals quickly, charges them with a crime, and tries them in a court under the full scrutiny of the voting public?

Canada only enacted the Emergencies Act when things got out of hand.

This was separatist group that for a time took control over the border, threatened and blockaded critical infrastructure and committed thousands of crimes (bribery, threats, assault, setting a fire in a building).

The criminal investigations are ongoing. Due process will be had.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#28

It is one thing whether or not the Canadian government should seize funds from people who support the "convoy" movement. It is a different thing whether or not the Canadian government should lose the ability to seize funds , in general, from its citizens. This article conflates the two.

The Canadian government can still seize crypto funds from citizens, it just requires them to actually go through a due process, and perhaps get a court order or warrant.

What's going on in Canada right now is a disgrace that perfectly exemplifies why the legacy financial system is morally - and quite literally - bankrupt.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#29
post #20

The Canadian Gubmint is issuing orders about seizing crypto assets too. We need more economic freedom; "cryptocurrencies" are not suddenly a panacea to that end. They're still the scam riddled "but this is stupid at its very base" pyramid schemes they were all along. See the precedent set by Emperor Norton; community currencies and other alternates can work too. What's needed is a government that admits limits to its…

If the crypto is in the users wallet (i.e. not on some crypto exchange) the canadian government cannot seize it without asking the user to sign a transaction transferring them the crypto. We are 13 years on from bitcoins inception, and we are on a tech board, how this is still not clear to people boggles me.

How many crypto "owners" don't have a wallet? What do those who do have one do when they get told "cough up the keys or go to jail"? "Crypto" is not some magic "laws don't apply" wand.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#30
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why must we choose between doing nothing on the one hand and freezing assets without due process on the other? Why can't we just have a functioning liberal democracy that arrests the purported criminals quickly, charges them with a crime, and tries them in a court under the full scrutiny of the voting public?

Canada only enacted the Emergencies Act when things got out of hand. This was separatist group that for a time took control over the border, threatened and blockaded critical infrastructure and committed thousands of crimes (bribery, threats, assault, setting a fire in a building). The criminal investigations are ongoing. Due process will be had.

Then arrest the people who are breaking the laws and blockading critical infrastructure, and charge them with a criminal offence. The BLM protests also saw many criminal elements that did looting and assaults. None of this is a valid argument for freezing accounts of people "involved" without due process.
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