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Why I Like Java (2014)

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Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#11

Post by smoyer »

You can write a pretty trivial Java program to copy stdin to stdout but Java is still one of the enterprise languages and people writing enterprise applications don't tend to write this type of software (but they do tend to have log4j vulnerabilities). The strengths of Java are its mature dependency management system(s), its comprehensive standard library and the vast ecosystem of third-party libraries. A better test of the language is whether you can write a complicated application in relatively fewer lines of code.

I spent much of my career writing Java code but have moved to Go - it's almost a return to my roots as an embedded systems engineer (without the memory management hassles of C) and it's vastly more economical to run Go applications in containers. I do find myself writing code that I used to pull in from a library though.

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#12

Post by kingkongjaffa »

smoyer wrote: post #11

You can write a pretty trivial Java program to copy stdin to stdout but Java is still one of the enterprise languages and people writing enterprise applications don't tend to write this type of software (but they do tend to have log4j vulnerabilities). The strengths of Java are its mature dependency management system(s), its comprehensive standard library and the vast ecosystem of third-party libraries. A better test…

People say this but where do you find libs for Java?

Python has pip,

JS/Node has NPM

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#13

Post by coldtea »

If the infamous HN Dropbox comment didn't exist, this post would serve well as the canonical "facile dismissal".

Reminded me of PG's essay about the "blub" programming language.

But, in this case, I'd like to reverse the use of the concept: it's not that Java is a blub programming language, but that the OP has only reached a blub-state of understanding it and its potential, and produced a blub (generic and derivative) argument against it.

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#14

Post by tlarkworthy »

kingkongjaffa wrote: post #12
smoyer wrote: post #11

You can write a pretty trivial Java program to copy stdin to stdout but Java is still one of the enterprise languages and people writing enterprise applications don't tend to write this type of software (but they do tend to have log4j vulnerabilities). The strengths of Java are its mature dependency management system(s), its comprehensive standard library and the vast ecosystem of third-party libraries. A better test…

People say this but where do you find libs for Java? Python has pip, JS/Node has NPM

Maven central

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#15

Post by coldtea »

kingkongjaffa wrote: post #12
smoyer wrote: post #11

You can write a pretty trivial Java program to copy stdin to stdout but Java is still one of the enterprise languages and people writing enterprise applications don't tend to write this type of software (but they do tend to have log4j vulnerabilities). The strengths of Java are its mature dependency management system(s), its comprehensive standard library and the vast ecosystem of third-party libraries. A better test…

People say this but where do you find libs for Java? Python has pip, JS/Node has NPM

>People say this but where do you find libs for Java?

Everywhere, on the lib website, on GitHub, on Apache, etc. (including centralized places like Maven Central). You then put a ferences in your Maven or Gradle file like you would in your package.json.

In fact, because for 99% of the libraries you just need to have a jar (or more) in your classpath, you don't have to have all the ceremony that Python has, and all the installation mess, venvs, and other such shite.

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#16

Post by bombcar »

smoyer wrote: post #11

You can write a pretty trivial Java program to copy stdin to stdout but Java is still one of the enterprise languages and people writing enterprise applications don't tend to write this type of software (but they do tend to have log4j vulnerabilities). The strengths of Java are its mature dependency management system(s), its comprehensive standard library and the vast ecosystem of third-party libraries. A better test…

Java is supportable in that I can get older code to build and run on Java8 still - may need a gradle update or some other minor stuff but it works.

So many other abandoned programs seem to become unbuildable pretty quickly.

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#17

Post by CraneWorm »

> Different languages have different failure modes. With Perl, the project might fail because you designed and implemented a pile of shit, but there is a clever workaround for any problem, so you might be able to keep it going long enough to hand it off to someone else, and then when it fails it will be their fault, not yours. With Haskell someone probably should have been fired in the first month for choosing to do it in Haskell.

So much unnecessary hate and stereotyping. And I bet they were thinking they're tongue-in-cheek-but-still-sounding-clever.

Also, interesting choice of programming languages, neither Python, PHP nor C got any flack, Javascript was spared but Java, Perl and Haskell are evil and using them makes you a "mediocre drone that cares only about cranking the lever and spouting code" (I'm paraphrasing the article here).

Choose your technology, learn your tools...

> I enjoyed programming in Java, and being relieved of the responsibility for producing a quality product.

Although, with that mindset, maybe forego programming altogether.

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#19

Post by aardvark179 »

pie_flavor wrote: post #4
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe thats the difference between "having mastered something" and "doing something a long time"? I cannot imagine an experienced Java programmer that doesn't know what "protected" means, its use is fundamental and pervasive. As for "volatile", idk - not knowing it hints at that person not having a concept of thread-safety. I'd expect someone who claims to be a senior to maybe not give me the memory model implication…

Volatile is specifically C's thread safety. AtomicInteger and ReentrantLock (aka mutex) are what a thread safe person should know.

While somebody writing concurrent Java code should definitely know the atomic classes, locks, and possibly var handles if they are implementing their own algorithms, they absolutely should also know the semantics of volatile. It does not provide thread safety in C or Java, but it’s very important in choosing how to define your data structures.

Re: Why I Like Java (2014)

#20

Post by the_af »

coldtea wrote: post #13

If the infamous HN Dropbox comment didn't exist, this post would serve well as the canonical "facile dismissal". Reminded me of PG's essay about the "blub" programming language. But, in this case, I'd like to reverse the use of the concept: it's not that Java is a blub programming language, but that the OP has only reached a blub-state of understanding it and its potential, and produced a blub (generic and derivative…

I don't think Mark Dominus has a "blub level understanding". This is the author of the hilarious "monads are like burritos" and many others, and it's quite clear that he is very opinionated but also very knowledgeable about programming languages.

Having programmed in Java for... what, 15+ years? I do agree with him about his assessment. Trying to solve an interview challenge in Java is to handicap yourself, unless it's the only language you know.

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