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I was wrong, we need crypto

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Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#11

Post by rglover »

We don't need "crypto," we need _Bitcoin_. Crypto is the scam he references here. It's clear that DHH has a very thin understanding of Bitcoin and is conflating arguments about the web3/crypto/defi/nft nonsense with it. _That_ is the psyop.

If people think Bitcoin and all of the other junk (sh*tcoins) are the same thing, you're just walking into the same trap as what precipitated the nightmare in Canada.

The thing to watch for is the push for CBDCs which are state-controlled cryptocurrencies which will give authoritarians perpetual hard-on levels of control. You think freezing a bank account is bad? Wait until they can make your money expire or prevent you from transacting with anyone they deem "bad actors."

Recommended: https://www.amazon.com/Bitcoin-Standard-Decentralized-Altern...

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#12

Post by csee »

defaultname wrote: post #8
csee wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trying to block international borders, they harassed [people] Then arrest the specific people doing this and charge them with a crime.

You're 100% right. The moment someone blasted their horn -- much less their modified, multi-horn noise-terrorism device -- they should have been warned, fined, and then charged/arrested for mischief. The moment they blocked roadways illegally with regulated, commercial vehicles, they should have been warned, fined, and then charged/arrested, the vehicle towed. The moment the first person stopped near a bridge they sh…

> That's the whole point, and was the intention of the group.

That's a point you are making, and it's a point I completely agree with.

But don't dismiss the unrelated point that DHH is raising, which is a concern over the power to freeze anyone's assets without due process, and the power of crypto to prevent that from happening.

Even if DHH is categorically wrong that it's a "peaceful" protest or whatever, his core point still stands.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#13

Post by h2odragon »

The Canadian Gubmint is issuing orders about seizing crypto assets too.

We need more economic freedom; "cryptocurrencies" are not suddenly a panacea to that end. They're still the scam riddled "but this is stupid at its very base" pyramid schemes they were all along.

See the precedent set by Emperor Norton; community currencies and other alternates can work too. What's needed is a government that admits limits to its powers to interfere with its citizens ability to transact. There's no technical means to make a government live up to that promise... Short of explosives.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#14

Post by defaultname »

csee wrote: post #12
defaultname wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're 100% right. The moment someone blasted their horn -- much less their modified, multi-horn noise-terrorism device -- they should have been warned, fined, and then charged/arrested for mischief. The moment they blocked roadways illegally with regulated, commercial vehicles, they should have been warned, fined, and then charged/arrested, the vehicle towed. The moment the first person stopped near a bridge they sh…

> That's the whole point, and was the intention of the group. That's a point you are making, and it's a point I completely agree with. But don't dismiss the unrelated point that DHH is raising, which is a concern over the power to freeze anyone's assets without due process, and the power of crypto to prevent that from happening. Even if DHH is categorically wrong that it's a "peaceful" protest or whatever, his core p…

DHH's piece is clearly just a pro-"trucker" piece -- he has posted others previously -- and he decided to add a crypto narrative as some weak editorial justification. Add that he knows crypto enthusiasts are now going to distribute this nonsense widely. It's a pretty easy group to pander to.

But sure, he brings up classic arguments for crypto. There is nothing new in them. "Avoid government control - use crypto". Sounds great when it's for a cause you support, and DHH supports chaos and lawlessness in foreign cities he has no interests in, so why not. Kind of falls apart when that same mechanism is used for causes you're against.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#15

Post by Comevius »

csee wrote: post #6
thomassmith65 wrote: post #3

It is one thing whether or not the Canadian government should seize funds from people who support the "convoy" movement. It is a different thing whether or not the Canadian government should lose the ability to seize funds , in general, from its citizens. This article conflates the two.

I read the article as connecting (not conflating) the two. He's saying that the government can no longer be trusted with this power, as evidenced by this particular misuse, and they therefore should lose that ability.

[flagged]

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#16

Post by LewisVerstappen »

h2odragon wrote: post #13

The Canadian Gubmint is issuing orders about seizing crypto assets too. We need more economic freedom; "cryptocurrencies" are not suddenly a panacea to that end. They're still the scam riddled "but this is stupid at its very base" pyramid schemes they were all along. See the precedent set by Emperor Norton; community currencies and other alternates can work too. What's needed is a government that admits limits to its…

> The Canadian Gubmint is issuing orders about seizing crypto assets too.

Sure, but the entire point is that they can't.

If you manage your own private keys, it is significantly harder for the canadian government to seize your assets compared to the gov telling your bank to freeze your account.

Crypto people need to work on UX though, so that you don't need to be technically savvy to do so.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#17

Post by csee »

defaultname wrote: post #14
csee wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's the whole point, and was the intention of the group. That's a point you are making, and it's a point I completely agree with. But don't dismiss the unrelated point that DHH is raising, which is a concern over the power to freeze anyone's assets without due process, and the power of crypto to prevent that from happening. Even if DHH is categorically wrong that it's a "peaceful" protest or whatever, his core p…

DHH's piece is clearly just a pro-"trucker" piece -- he has posted others previously -- and he decided to add a crypto narrative as some weak editorial justification. Add that he knows crypto enthusiasts are now going to distribute this nonsense widely. It's a pretty easy group to pander to. But sure, he brings up classic arguments for crypto. There is nothing new in them. "Avoid government control - use crypto". Sou…

It's a mistake to think this article is just a rehash of the classic arguments for crypto. The Canadian response is the first piece of hard evidence we have seen that such arguments aren't just fanciful theoretical speculations that could never apply to wealthy, liberal democracies. It is good and useful to point this out. Even if the rest of the piece is ideologically motivated, we shouldn't then close off to this important nugget of truth.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#18

Post by csee »

Comevius wrote: post #15
csee wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article as connecting (not conflating) the two. He's saying that the government can no longer be trusted with this power, as evidenced by this particular misuse, and they therefore should lose that ability.

[flagged]

Why must we choose between doing nothing on the one hand and freezing assets without due process on the other? Why can't we just have a functioning liberal democracy that arrests the purported criminals quickly, charges them with a crime, and tries them in a court under the full scrutiny of the voting public?

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#19

Post by defaultname »

csee wrote: post #17
defaultname wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DHH's piece is clearly just a pro-"trucker" piece -- he has posted others previously -- and he decided to add a crypto narrative as some weak editorial justification. Add that he knows crypto enthusiasts are now going to distribute this nonsense widely. It's a pretty easy group to pander to. But sure, he brings up classic arguments for crypto. There is nothing new in them. "Avoid government control - use crypto". Sou…

It's a mistake to think this article is just a rehash of the classic arguments for crypto. The Canadian response is the first piece of hard evidence we have seen that such arguments aren't just fanciful theoretical speculations that could never apply to wealthy, liberal democracies. It is good and useful to point this out. Even if the rest of the piece is ideologically motivated, we shouldn't then close off to this i…

>The Canadian response is the first piece of hard evidence

For two decades the US has frozen and seized accounts in the hundreds of thousands -- billions of dollars in assets -- often with little oversight or checks. Civil forfeiture is rampant. Whole political groups have been declared "terrorist affiliated" and any correlation at all can lead to extremely unpleasant outcomes. No fly lists are flippant and casual.

And you think Canada using financial tools, primarily motivated by large external contributions to illegal activities, is the example?

It's maybe an example, sure. A weak one to me, but sure. It's certainly no precedent. To use this as the kick off point for some crypto advocacy seems...pernicious.

Re: I was wrong, we need crypto

#20

Post by dylkil »

h2odragon wrote: post #13

The Canadian Gubmint is issuing orders about seizing crypto assets too. We need more economic freedom; "cryptocurrencies" are not suddenly a panacea to that end. They're still the scam riddled "but this is stupid at its very base" pyramid schemes they were all along. See the precedent set by Emperor Norton; community currencies and other alternates can work too. What's needed is a government that admits limits to its…

If the crypto is in the users wallet (i.e. not on some crypto exchange) the canadian government cannot seize it without asking the user to sign a transaction transferring them the crypto.

We are 13 years on from bitcoins inception, and we are on a tech board, how this is still not clear to people boggles me.

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