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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#581

Post by efdee »

chickenimprint wrote: post #291
ornornor wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> privacy rights given to us by law (eg in the EU) > As a EU citizen, i hope that our ineffectual administration at least tries to fight this somehow. Of course, there is little hope. GDPR is thanks to the EU and I wouldn’t say it has no effect. It seems like you’re contradicting yourself with these two paragraphs.

Is it safe to assume you've never had to deal with those downright malevolent dark patterns and button labyrinths, designed to make it extremely unlikely for anyone in the general population to actually reject tracking?

In my experience, almost all of those consent popups work the same way. On the first popup, press the button that doesn't say they can just use all cookies. On the second popup, press the button that says it saves your preferences.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#582

Post by blibble »

toyg wrote: post #470
cameronh90 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before the whole brexit issue, even most ardent EU supporters would admit that the institution was terribly dysfunctional and would need to be reinvented to survive the next few decades. The Brexit debate seems to have polarised the whole issue into either you hate the EU and everything it stands for, or you think the EU is perfect and if it wasn't for these damn national governments then we could live in utopia. Unf…

> even most ardent EU supporters would admit that the institution was terribly dysfunctional That's a mischaracterization. "Most" would have accepted that there was (and is) room for improvement, but "terribly disfunctional" is an extreme term. The view that the whole institution had to be reinvented has always been a very English idea, based on the fact that some key policies (like agricultural support) benefited ot…

> Britain benefited hugely from infrastructure support programs, for example.

how, exactly?

compared to UK government expenditure: the funding from EU programs are a rounding error

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#584

Post by jeltz »

andrewingram wrote: post #451
janpot wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want them to be able to see what doesn't work in terms of user experience. That's not what they're doing, at all. They want to be able to see what doesn't work in terms of maximising profits. That may correlate with good user experience sometimes, but more often it results in the opposite.

The bit you're replying to here hasn't yet introduced the problem of marketing teams. The kind of tracking in the first section is "understanding how people use your product", and is usually introduced by the product team, rather than marketing. And most product teams i've worked on fiercely fight back against the addition of excessive tracking. Whilst the goal of a business (and therefore a product team), is usually…

You have been lucky then. At the places I have worked the product people have not fought with thech but if anything they have fought against tech on this matter.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#585

Post by blibble »

peoplefromibiza wrote: post #575
pqs wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can argue that the EU itself is rather undemocratic, as the Parliament does not hold much power, and there isn't a clear separation between executive and legislative, as the Commission and the Council of Ministers both participate in the process.

> One can argue that the EU itself is rather undemocratic Of course one can. It doesn't make it correct though.

it's the only parliament in the world that can't legislate

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#586

Post by tsimionescu »

nec4b wrote: post #571
Y-bar wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish people would stop attributing our attitude to nationalistic resurgences. Why should we stop? Where I live (NW Europe) this sentiment is almost exclusively echoed by members of the refreshed "neoconservative/nationalistic" right wing parties. Other parties also have their qualms about government institutions, of course, but for different reasons and expressed with different attitudes.

In Eastern Europe before joining the EU, the most anti EU parties were the "ex"- communist and neomarxist and the conservative parties couldn't wait to get in. There can be 2 explanations why this has changed today. 1. The "ex"-communist and neomarxist parties became enlightened democrats and the conservatives changed to nationalistic anti democrats. 2. Something changed within the EU, which made it a suitable enviro…

You should also note that across much of Eastern Europe, the "ex"-"communist" and "neomarxist" parties were always either nationalistic and populist (e.g. the PDSR/PSD in Romania) or subservient to Russia. This means that there was a very easy pivot from "communist" parties to far-right ultranationalism, usually with a good dash of oligarchy, authoritarianism, and/or kleptocracy which also characterized the old regimes. There are very few, if any, leftist ideals held by any remnants of the Cold War-era government parties.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#587

Post by mkdirp »

janikvonrotz wrote: post #583

"this is america, stupid" This won't be allowed in the EU under GDPR[^1]. [^1]: https://matomo.org/blog/2022/01/google-analytics-gdpr-violat...

Which is fine, but will it be enforced? So far GDPR rules haven't done a whole lot of damage except make sure everyone knows what a cookie might be. Until the EU is willing to better enforce the GDPR rules, Google will keep doing what they're doing.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#588

Post by Chris2048 »

dxdm wrote: post #289
zwaps wrote: post #228

Crazy how evil Google is. Just wow. Since this runs entirely on the domain of the website, it can easily ignore your privacy rights, with Google more or less washing their hands clean of it. Indeed, if we take blocking trackers as expression of consent, the only possible reason this exists at all is to illegally circumvent privacy preferences. In other words, if you work for Google, you are literally working for a cr…

> our ineffectual administration It always saddens me to see EU citizens talk in absolutes like that. With some exceptions, and by comparison, we have some of the best governments in the world, and, for all its faults, the EU has been a huge net positive. Perpetuating these overly negative stereotypes just aids populists in replacing our good governance with the other kind that we see all over the world.

On what basis?

For all it's faults Google was great. Now it isn't.

Why wouldn't we think the EU is just the same, but on a longer timespan. Maybe if we had been more critical of google in the beginning, despite it's initial comparative goodness, it would have found it harder becoming rooted.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#589

Post by glogla »

ThalesX wrote: post #565
glogla wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might not be formally member of such groups, but if you are spreading their values and repeating their propaganda, you're working for them. That would make you de facto member even if you're not de iure member. e: and based on Paradox of Tolerance, shutting down communication with anti-system efforts might be the only way. You can't be tolerant to intolerance, you can't be democratic to anti-democracy, etc.

Mind underlying where I am spreading the values and propaganda of 'refreshed "neoconservative/nationalistic" right wing parties'? I would like to not do such a thing if possible. I'm quite surprised that so many don't realize that there exists an entire category of people that are not radical, but do hold opinions on some reforms that should be taken, including the quote that started this conversation "our ineffectua…

I'm not saying you are. I'm saying that if someone says X and there's groups saying X than expecting that person to be part of that group is kinda normal and not some kind of character assassination.

Speaking of ineffectual administration - I think it might be hard for some people to grasp that any bureaucracy is going to look inefficient. The point of bureaucracy is to replace ad-hoc decision making with a repeatable, documented, audited and justifiable process. Ad-hoc "the dictator decides" is always going to be faster.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#590

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jacquesm wrote: post #577
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their whole goal is to create a need where there isn't an organic one This is reductionist. Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? In a sense. But in another sense, it was broadcasting a better way of being. Marketing doesn’t have to be evil. Saying all marketing is evil is sort of a cop out for the people who do it badly.

> Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? People were telling each other about these. > Marketing doesn’t have to be evil. No, indeed it doesn't. But as a rule it definitely appears to be. It's a bit like arsenic: it doesn't have to be negative but usually it is. > Saying all marketing is evil is sort of a cop out for the people who do it badly. If 99% of the people engaging i…

> It's a bit like arsenic: it doesn't have to be negative but usually it is

This is a good analogy. In stories, arsenic is almost without fail evil. In reality, it has use in medicine, agriculture and ceramics [1].

> If 99% of the people engaging in an activity are doing it badly then I'm all for reigning them in

We agree. And I have no horse in this race. But that 99% figure is largely confined to tech-based marketing. The people painting print ads and planning PR stunts aren’t hurting anyone.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arsenic#Uses

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