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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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391–400 of 902 posts

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#391
post #228

Crazy how evil Google is. Just wow. Since this runs entirely on the domain of the website, it can easily ignore your privacy rights, with Google more or less washing their hands clean of it. Indeed, if we take blocking trackers as expression of consent, the only possible reason this exists at all is to illegally circumvent privacy preferences. In other words, if you work for Google, you are literally working for a cr…

Things has changed indeed. Modern economy (I mean the one that has started somewhere deep in the Middle-ages) which finally led to the appearance of capitalism, was built on several foundations, one of them was ethics - in the olden days, in the times of lack of communication, invoices, the state authority that could enforce any law quickly, people had to count on the honesty of the others. One merchant had to trust another, otherwise no trade would be possible, there were no courts that could block dishonest party bank account or take any action to prevent fraud.

There were dishonest merchants, sure, but when finally message was spread, nobody would trade with them (if they managed to stay alive).

In the western world this ethics come from Christianity, those who were stealing, cheating, were going to hell - People really believed that and were afraid of this. Today for a lot of people, and for sure for Google management, this sounds like some fairy tale of the Princess Mononoke or Little Red Riding Hood type. Nobody (including a lot of Christians) is not scared by the devil, hell and all that stuff any more.

Unfortunately, as we see, ethics is still needed. Whatever EU does, Google will find the way to circumvent any regulation as it happens with GDPR, which is easily bypassed by the maze of buttons, 6pt light grey text, etc. And even if Google will be forced at some point to close its service officially in Europe (escalation that probably will never happen, but I also though that probably there will no war in Europe during my lifetime), people will use VPN-s, etc. to keep using it, as there is no viable alternative (the issue in itself).

It all can stop only if some people in Google would just decide that doing X is nasty and that they are abandoning the idea, even if income will be smaller next year.

This would be an ethical behavior, but nowadays to be ethical company it is cheap - it is sufficient to add to your company management board "person of color", person from "oppressed minority" (luckily there is so many such minorities to chose from so this is not a problem) which costs somewhere around $500K per year plus change your company logo to LGBT+ rainbow once a year ($100 for an HTML expert to handle this).

Once this is covered, company is ethical in the eyes of the public and can use all possible tax avoidance schemes, exploit it workers as Amazon does in its warehouses, steal their data and use them to create conflicts between people and manipulate them like Facebook does. And so on.

As a result Google can do what it wants and nobody will stop them. More, people would not even know about this outside tech/privacy oriented circles as mass media are living from the ads, so this change is actually what they dream of.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#392
post #323
post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't blame the lawmaker for the bad behaviour of people who are trying to bypass it... If you're on such website, you know that the website itself shouldn't be trusted.

the laws are teethless if they are not enforced, and playing hot potatoe with responsibilities like is the case with Max Schrems makes it all laughable. dont blame the lawmaker for participants bad behaviour? well, ok. allright. but i DO blame the responsible authorities for licking the misbehaving participants' boots

> the laws are teethless if they are not enforced

How many sites have you reported?

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#393
post #347
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect this might end up as a slightly trickier scenario because when you get down to the details it’s hard at a technical level to make a distinction between a server log file and a tool like analytics which takes those same bits of data and mostly just organises and displays it in an intuitive way with charts and a nice UI.

The ruling against google analytics in France is quite simple: google analytics as used by an unnamed website was not compliant with GDPR, because it exports user data to a country that has privacy laws that are not up to GDPR standards, which is not allowed. This is on the unnamed website and they or compelled to stop this illegal export of user data by either only exporting anonymized statistics or stopping use of…

But this actually highlights exactly what I mean. What if I simply stood up a plain old Apache server to host my website but that happened to be hosted in the US. No analytics, just a few HTML files and that’s it.

I’m still in this scenario sending PII of EU citizens in the form of IP addresses to the US which are just written to /var/log/apache

It seems obviously different and yet as that ruling seems to imply it wouldn’t be unless I’m missing something here between first and third party capture or something?

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR has been a massive win for user/consumer rights. Its a piece of legislation law makers in the US are trying to mimic. Surprisingly the UK are trying to rid or weaken GDPR significantly after brexit. The only way to fix this problem now is through strong legislation.

Did it really make the world a better place? Most sites collect as much data as ever, but now we need many more clicks, and can't have nice things like photos from kindergarden parties anymore.

I'm less likely to use a site that offers obnoxious cookie consent forms, and I think I'm better off without them. so yeah, it made the world better for me.

My anger is directed towards the criminal websites that seek to circumvent the spirit of the law (most if the web today)

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#395
With PlatformStorage on Android 12, which lets apps share key/values and things like this, it really looks like two steps back, one step forward for privacy if Topics/FLEDGE ever make it to browsers. The cat and mouse games need to stop.

A strong privacy law that cracks down on fingerprinting and lets users opt-out of tracking and delete their data really seems necessary. Even ephemeral data collection online needs to be checked. The user should be in control, and be served context-based or random ads, unless they approve interest based ads. The LiveRamps of the world will still be able to collect 3rd party data offline, but it's not anonymous, and can be deleted, at least if you're in CA for now through the CCPA.

Most users would likely be fine with consented context-based or interest-based ads, but an option for no analytics tracking or other tracking should be respected.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Over time I have noticed a strong correlation between sites which don't work right without JS and low-quality content...." Absolutely true, I can't agree with you more. I've reached the stage where if I land on a site and its main content is blocked if JavaScript is disabled then my conditioned reflex kicks in and I'm off the site within milliseconds. Rarely is this a problem with sites that I frequent (and I too do…

Any tips for high quality content sites? It truly is hard to find these days

Yeah, read HN!

There are stacks and stacks of them here on HN that are of excellent quality - I use HN as my 'quality' filter (and I reckon I'm not alone).

Moreover, if one doesn't run JS like me then it's dead easy to avoid problematic sites as HN lists them (Twitter, etc. - and it doesn't take long to get to know the main offenders, thus avoid them).

:-)

BTW, I agree with you it is hard to find good sites these days but eventually most really good sites appear here on HN. Do what I do, when you come across them bookmark them.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#397
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> our ineffectual administration It always saddens me to see EU citizens talk in absolutes like that. With some exceptions, and by comparison, we have some of the best governments in the world, and, for all its faults, the EU has been a huge net positive. Perpetuating these overly negative stereotypes just aids populists in replacing our good governance with the other kind that we see all over the world.

> It always saddens me to see EU citizens talk in absolutes like that. Unfortunate there are many European enemies of the EU. It doesn't even have anything to do with EU administration: EU can't prevent Google trying to trick users into leaking their privates data and habits. Not at least until Google reveals their plans on how they're gonna do it. On a final note: we accepted two non-democratic countries in EU, Pola…

> we accepted two non-democratic countries in EU, Poland and Hungary, and these are the results.

I can't speak for Poland, but the political landscape of Hungary was different when it joined the EU, and the country was by no means considered non-democratic or EU-skeptic.

> They infected all the other countries

The EU was infected by rising inequality and the degradation of purchasing power by the middle class, which is a global issue that gives an opportunity for populists to gain power, and for the population to find scapegoats, like pointing fingers at a foreign country.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Over time I have noticed a strong correlation between sites which don't work right without JS and low-quality content...." Absolutely true, I can't agree with you more. I've reached the stage where if I land on a site and its main content is blocked if JavaScript is disabled then my conditioned reflex kicks in and I'm off the site within milliseconds. Rarely is this a problem with sites that I frequent (and I too do…

Any tips for high quality content sites? It truly is hard to find these days

The thing with WWW is links, the web. So https://news.ycombinator.com is a good starter. From there, yes, you could end up on twitter.com for example but it would be worthwhile.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#399
post #228

Crazy how evil Google is. Just wow. Since this runs entirely on the domain of the website, it can easily ignore your privacy rights, with Google more or less washing their hands clean of it. Indeed, if we take blocking trackers as expression of consent, the only possible reason this exists at all is to illegally circumvent privacy preferences. In other words, if you work for Google, you are literally working for a cr…

How is this crazy? Server administrators could have done, and have done anything on their side of the code. Nothing changed on this front since the invention of the HTTP request.

Previously GA and GTM would share private data with Google but we could at least see requests going out to google, so if you had rejected data being shared with 3rd parties or hadn't been asked at all (think GDPR) you could see that the website was breaking the law. This clever solution from Google hides it from us, consumers, so that we will just have to trust that if a website doesn't ask if it may share our details with Google, or when we tell them not to share data with Google, they actually won't do that.

Just to enphasise: for GDPR it really doesn't matter where your data is shared with a third party, from the browser or server. It's your data so they have to ask your permission to share it and otherwise they can't.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#400
post #25

God damn... this is it, this is the end-game. There's no way to fight this unless you customize and maintain blocking scripts for each individual website. Yes, websites could always have done this, but the REST (CDN-bypassing) requests' cost and the manual maintenance for the telemetry endpoints and storage was an impediment that Google just gives them a drop-in solution for :( I think Google is happy to eat some of…

I get privacy concerns and hate for ads, but what about "free" internet? Paywalls are a massive annoyance to me personally, and if ads were legislatively blocked, would I have to pay for each website I visit that previously relied on ads for $? Perhaps we could be making micro-transactions for each website visited via crypto (?)

So something like https://yalls.org?
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