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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#211

Post by eru »

dsr_ wrote: post #200
eru wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can fight against it by refusing to use these websites? If you can't do this, perhaps because a big _majority_ of users don't care enough to support this kind of ecosystem shift, what makes you think a majority of voters would support this? (And if not, why would you want to force your view on them?) It's like legislating that people should only listen to Good Music and eat Healthy Food, as defined by some people…

I rather think it's more like legislating that you can't sell people food adulterated with poisons, and you have to label the ingredients accurately. Oh, and it's like saying that you can't sell lead paint, even though it is a very pretty white.

Even without that legislation, most people would already care about avoiding poisoned food.

So a law specifically forbidding poisons is in line with what the majority already cares about.

(Slightly related: see eg some Chinese people making good money from buying baby formula overseas and shipping it back home in their luggage. China has legislation against poison, but people don't trust the enforcement enough.)

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#212

Post by aenis »

EE84M3i wrote: post #181
booleandilemma wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simpler protocols (Gemini, Gopher...), outright refusing to use what the modern web has become. I only use HN and a few select sites. You don't need an ad-blocker if there are no ads in the first place.

HN is a link aggregator for HTTP(s) links. How do you read them?

Not sure about the parent poster, but I am here mostly for the comments, and rarely visit the linked content.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#213

Post by wmeredith »

varenc wrote: post #57

Apple and Firefox brought this on by killing 3rd party cookies. The reason why client send requests to the 3rd party domain directly is that the cookies attached to that domain are sent and which can track you better! With a server-side request there's no way to use that cookie info. But browsers increasingly limit 3rd party cookies. With 3rd party cookies becoming useless for tracking there's far less to lose by mov…

> Apple and Firefox brought this on by killing 3rd party cookies.

And the ad networks–like Google–brought that on by their user-hostile data collection practices.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#214

Post by alexb_ »

smt88 wrote: post #129
gernb wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do what? Record who came in and out of your house?

Bad analogy. It's more like Target, Walmart, and Best Buy recording everything you do in the store (where your eyes go, what you say to your spouse, etc.) and then selling that information to random companies you've never interacted with , including each other. Together, they can create a comprehensive log of everything you do outside (and inside!) your house and secretly sell it. This isn't even an analogy. With Ale…

I'm pretty sure those big retailers are already doing this. Given sufficient profit motive, you should always assume the worst possible.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#215

Post by [deleted] »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #143
reaperducer wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no concern with blocking Google App Engine holistically Unfortunately, it seems that more and more government web sites rely on Google services to function. And there's no replacement for those.

How can it be legal for a government to make increasingly core services depend on these amoral, for profit monsters?

[deleted]

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#216

Post by garren »

notriddle wrote: post #139
anxrn wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it can surely be obfuscated, but ultimately there will be a client-side function with near-identical functionality prevalent all over the web. It's harder, but seems possible to build an extension to identify this function.

This is literally the same game virus scanners played against mutation engines. Ultimately, the halting problem won. There are two places this can end: * Redesign the runtime environment so it doesn’t matter if you download trackers. The execution environment doesn’t offer the I/O facilities that it requires to actually produce harm. This is what Apple Private Relay and Tor Browser try to give you. By analogy, this i…

I was going to suggest introducing the kind of heuristic analysis found in antivirus engines. Kind of like your item #2 - don’t run scripts that behave badly (for some heuristically recognizable “bad behavior”.) Basically a browser built-in AV scanner. Maybe give a user the option to permit the script once per session, or forever. Something like this would definitely introduce a UX speed bump, it sounds terrible.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#217

Post by smt88 »

judge2020 wrote: post #145
smt88 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad analogy. It's more like Target, Walmart, and Best Buy recording everything you do in the store (where your eyes go, what you say to your spouse, etc.) and then selling that information to random companies you've never interacted with , including each other. Together, they can create a comprehensive log of everything you do outside (and inside!) your house and secretly sell it. This isn't even an analogy. With Ale…

Why does selling the data matter? If it's fine to collect but not sell it, people would already be fine with Google Ads tracking as Google is solely in possession of that data and will never sell it, lest their competitors gain an edge by out-header-bidding Google (offering higher profit margins to sites) with Google's own user data.

> Why does selling the data matter?

It is somewhat galling for your private behavior to be monetized.

But you're right that the selling itself is not the core issue. The core issue is that it's being shared. The monetization is an incentive to share, and that's where the problem lies.

By contrast, think about your doctor: they can't legally sell your private data. If they share it with anyone, it is for the express purpose of helping you, their patient. No problem there! My doctor shares my data with their lab testing partners and cloud vendor, and it doesn't bother me at all.

Now imagine if my doctor could legally sell my data to anyone and make even more money from me. We know with 100% certainty that every hospital would sell that data far and wide.

This is what adtech firms are doing, just with (slightly) less sensitive data than my doctor has.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#219

Post by propogandist »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #182
gaius_baltar wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Proud uMatrix user here. Sadly, just noticed that the repo is now archived and I don't know if it will be maintained. Could not find any fork either. I'll miss this extension.

I liked this a lot but I don't see how someone without a computer science degree will use it successfully.. I think this is why Raymond gave up on it.. I think for the masses his time is better spent on uBlock Origin.

It requires some effort to get oriented, but the granularity of control is fantastic. There is no competition.

Although the dev gave up on it, he's open to someone picking it up (if there are any brave souls on HN)

https://old.reddit.com/r/uBlockOrigin/comments/i240ds/reques...

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