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Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

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Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#101

Post by bo1024 »

gzer0 wrote: post #88

Increasingly, the only solution I see to this is Apple's Private Relay [1]. "When Private Relay is in use, the user’s device opens up a connection to the first internet relay (also known as the “ingress proxy”). As the user browses, their original IP address is visible to the first internet relay and to the network they are connected to. However, the website names requested by the user are encrypted and cannot be see…

I don't think this is a solution, since modern fingerprinting methods go far, far beyond IP address.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#102

Post by olliej »

heavyset_go wrote: post #85

I blindly added Google Tag Manager to my sites. This article gave me a reason to remove it, thanks.

You shouldn’t be adding any google scripts to your site, u less you believe that you have the right to support spying on your users.

Google “analytics” is a spyware system that they bribed sites to include with the promise of “knowing your users”.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#103

Post by irrational »

ec109685 wrote: post #36
gigel82 wrote: post #25

God damn... this is it, this is the end-game. There's no way to fight this unless you customize and maintain blocking scripts for each individual website. Yes, websites could always have done this, but the REST (CDN-bypassing) requests' cost and the manual maintenance for the telemetry endpoints and storage was an impediment that Google just gives them a drop-in solution for :( I think Google is happy to eat some of…

Apple’s Private Relay blocks this type of cross site tracking. Given this tracking is all server side, third party cookies across sites aren’t possible using this mechanism, and private relay cycles through your IP addresses frequently and uses common IPs across multiple users. Regarding your other point, unless Google execs want to be thrown in jail / sued, they can’t use things like first party cookies for their be…

I wonder why Safari is required? I’d be interested in paying for this if it worked with Firefox.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#104

Post by Teever »

gernb wrote: post #81
Teever wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it so strange that if you or I were to do these kinds of things to an individual it would be considered creepy cyber stalking but when companies do it they are rewarded?

Do what? Record who came in and out of your house?

> Do what?

All of the things that these companies do to monitor and track as much of the population as they can.

What I'm saying is it's funny because it's one of those things that's apparently legal to do in the aggregate but not individually?

Imagine if someone started up a business to track Google employees.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#105

Post by gzer0 »

meibo wrote: post #95
gzer0 wrote: post #88

Increasingly, the only solution I see to this is Apple's Private Relay [1]. "When Private Relay is in use, the user’s device opens up a connection to the first internet relay (also known as the “ingress proxy”). As the user browses, their original IP address is visible to the first internet relay and to the network they are connected to. However, the website names requested by the user are encrypted and cannot be see…

To what is a VPN a solution? It prevents IP tracking, but that's it. The rest of what is described here still works.

"Private Relay uses both the CONNECT and CONNECT-UDP methods in HTTP/3 to set up connections quickly. For connections to websites that support TLS or QUIC, the initial TLS handshake messages are sent in the same set of data as the proxy request"

Would this not hinder the proposed mechanism discussed in the article?

Edit: forgive me, for my knowledge of networking is limited and I'd like to learn more if I am incorrect.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#106

Post by romeoblade »

whalesalad wrote: post #73
chrisseaton wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you do that? Isn't it the server that talks to Google Tag Manager, not the browser?

Google tag manager in my experience is a script executed by the browser. Then it installs itself in the page and performs the inner payload of user script insertions. It’s a Trojan horse, really. You can block Google tag manager’s embed scripts. I wasn’t aware of a backend integration but it’s certainly possible. Regardless, I use a DNS based ad blocker (pihole) and it takes care of all this stuff. I occasionally nee…

You missed the part where they recommend changing the script's name as well, add in changing a few variable/function names in the script and even matching the hash of the script itself would be useless. On top of them recommending using a sub domain with an A/AAAA record so its first party.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#107

Post by bhauer »

gigel82 wrote: post #25

God damn... this is it, this is the end-game. There's no way to fight this unless you customize and maintain blocking scripts for each individual website. Yes, websites could always have done this, but the REST (CDN-bypassing) requests' cost and the manual maintenance for the telemetry endpoints and storage was an impediment that Google just gives them a drop-in solution for :( I think Google is happy to eat some of…

I think in the short-term the strategy is this from the article:

> Or ... block all the IP addresses of Google App Engine, at the risk of blocking many applications. having nothing to do with tracking.

Anyone hosting legitimate apps in the Google ecosystsm is indirectly complicit in this and at least for my personal network, I have no concern with blocking Google App Engine holistically.

Additionally, I think it's important to hurt Google as much as possible for escalating in this way. Widespread blocking of GAE may seem extreme but it's also arguably warranted.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#108

Post by notriddle »

bo1024 wrote: post #101
gzer0 wrote: post #88

Increasingly, the only solution I see to this is Apple's Private Relay [1]. "When Private Relay is in use, the user’s device opens up a connection to the first internet relay (also known as the “ingress proxy”). As the user browses, their original IP address is visible to the first internet relay and to the network they are connected to. However, the website names requested by the user are encrypted and cannot be see…

I don't think this is a solution, since modern fingerprinting methods go far, far beyond IP address.

Apple Private Relay runs on iDevices, which are almost all identical.

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#109

Post by brundolf »

ghostpepper wrote: post #74
brundolf wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have mixed feelings about it, even just as a user. There are two reasons people block tracking scripts: 1) privacy, and 2) to stem the deluge of crap that marketing departments dump onto the page, harming performance (both load-time and otherwise) [1]. This basically gives everyone the benefit of #2, even if they don't or can't use an ad blocker. That's pretty cool, in isolation. But of course it also makes it much…

Don't forget about ad-served malware

GTM doesn't serve ads though, so my understanding is the OP doesn't apply to ads, only trackers

Re: Google Tag Manager, the new anti-adblock weapon (2020)

#110

Post by reaperducer »

bhauer wrote: post #107
gigel82 wrote: post #25

God damn... this is it, this is the end-game. There's no way to fight this unless you customize and maintain blocking scripts for each individual website. Yes, websites could always have done this, but the REST (CDN-bypassing) requests' cost and the manual maintenance for the telemetry endpoints and storage was an impediment that Google just gives them a drop-in solution for :( I think Google is happy to eat some of…

I think in the short-term the strategy is this from the article: > Or ... block all the IP addresses of Google App Engine, at the risk of blocking many applications. having nothing to do with tracking. Anyone hosting legitimate apps in the Google ecosystsm is indirectly complicit in this and at least for my personal network, I have no concern with blocking Google App Engine holistically. Additionally, I think it's im…

I have no concern with blocking Google App Engine holistically

Unfortunately, it seems that more and more government web sites rely on Google services to function. And there's no replacement for those.

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