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Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

vaghetti.dev

11–20 of 611 posts

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#11

Is this actually true? Are CEOs lamenting their engineering labor costs like this? I feel like by now the cost of engineering labor has demonstrated its value over and over again, to the point where most CEOs accept the cost of engineering is more or less a shared expense across competition, and not really something to be reduced.

Depends on where. Hearing the complaining openly at some companies. My former employer openly called American engineering salaries too high during all hands.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#13
Right now developer salaries have greatly risen at the top end - the max has risen much faster than the median. Much of the top end growth has been at companies benefitting from easy investor capital.

I think this will follow a typical business cycle. When the next recession comes, investors and companies will focus on shorter term ROI, and many high end developers and long term projects will seem too expensive. Reduced competition will dramatically affect the top end, and non-salary benefits may drop quite a bit. The median salary will probably remain sticky but lose a bit when adjusted for inflation. Eventually the next expansion starts but it may take a very long time for the top end competition to heat up to this degree again.

I don't expect low-code, AI, or developer productivity jumps to have any real impact anytime soon; there's no real evidence of a true jump in the productivity of the overall project.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#15
post #6

I can't remewthe last time my job bottleneck was writing code to implement requirements. The bottleneck is almost always migrating a legacy system, getting buy-in, interviewing users to design the system, or waiting on requirements to be finalized.

The bottleneck for me is always myself.

Getting started can be hard sometimes.

Getting into the flow of programming where code comes swiftly is tough.

Getting stuck on problems by trying too hard to optimize / design / abstract is common.

At the end of the day its really these things that prevent me from being a better programmer. I have nobody to blame but myself, yet nothing I do really seems to move the needle. Presence of mind and clarity of thought are both a fleeting resource. I have to strike while the iron is hot, and the iron is (unfortunately) not always hot.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#16

Is this actually true? Are CEOs lamenting their engineering labor costs like this? I feel like by now the cost of engineering labor has demonstrated its value over and over again, to the point where most CEOs accept the cost of engineering is more or less a shared expense across competition, and not really something to be reduced.

Well we have a couple of particularly vocal CEO here (Quebec, Canada) that are always moaning (sometimes on national television) about how they cannot find talent or that gaming companies "steal their talents". All the while they pay comparatively low salaries when compared to what you get working remote for US business. Worst case is when they IPO, they get a fat exit and the workers get nothing because company don't generally give equity here.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#17
I think it ends with everyone becoming a developer.

Making machines do things will never end. However, the tools for making machines do things is evolving very quickly.

The general art of being a developer will continue to get specialized and at some point specialists at any field would be expected to be able to program their machines.

Very few people are learning how to run their servers and much more are moving into AWS type of infrastructure and “cloud literacy” has become a thing.

I would expect layers of abstraction to continue to build up and programming to become something like using spreadsheets to do your actual task.

Eventually, “true programming” will scale back to building these tools. It would be rather niche, very high skill serious engineering - an elite, hard to get in profession that continues to fetch high salaries. They probably will have some kind of association similar to the lawyers/doctors, the code they write will no longer tolerate bugs as a fact of life but they will be responsible as any other licensed professionals. Skipping unit test will land you in jail or very high fine due to malpractice if something goes wrong.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#19
post #5

Short of a dot-com burst I don't see a glut of software engineers. However, as the career prospects are better known there are more people thinking they want to be a software developer, will this increase the talent pool and decrease demand?

I feel like this has already been happening for years... probably longer than that. I find a lot of the people I work with were pulled away from other industries. Some industries are over-represented, like science, engineering, education.

Re: Times are great for programmers now. How does it end?

#20

Lawyers and doctors have always enjoyed “good times” and there’s no reason to think they’ll stop. Why not programmers, too?

Lawyers and doctors are certified by their respective boards and bars. Individuals who aren't certified can't perform tasks that certified individuals can without non-trivial legal consequences.

I'd say they aren't really the same.

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