Remember there are boomers still paying other boomers 100-1000s of dollars to prepare their taxes for them. That and regulatory capture.
Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
41–50 of 135 posts
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#42They lost our business about five years ago because of them
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
The government here (Spain) knows the money I make just as any government knows about its citizens. When I'm to do my taxes, I get an auto generated draft and the only thing I have to do is click the "Accept" button. You only have to fill your taxes manually if you're self employed or have some sort of earnings other than your job, in which case, the company that does you accounting, does the taxes for you too in 15…
In the USA the government also knows the money you make. They have all the data they need to be able to generate a pre-filled draft, and taxpayers could use that as a starting point and modify it if they needed to take a large tax credit for installing solar panels, or some other such thing which the government doesn't necessarily know about. But it's against the law. The law specifically prohibits the tax agency (IR…
That was my point.
They know the money you make, they can make it free and easy but they don't want to cut the middleman.
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#44From what I understand (and I could be wrong) they spend a decent amount of money lobbying politicians in Congress. Customers are very much frustrated though and I believe the Cash app started letting people file taxes for free this year.
those who used credit karma previously for taxes will this year be prompted to use cash app
it's free, yeah
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#45Because power protects itself.
And dark patterns work.
Customers are frustrated and angry, and they feel powerless to do anything about it.
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#46You would think there would be more political will for a government to make taxation as smooth and painless as possible for its citizens. I don't hate paying income tax because I "lose" money, I hate it because the process is a massive pain in the ass, and if I make a mistake (how can you not), I risk being fined, or worse. Turbo Tax also provides some kind of service to help you if the IRS comes after you for some e…
> I honestly think more people would be willing to pay higher taxes if the process was low-effort for most people. TBH I think this is why Intuit has been so successful in their lobbying efforts. A key goal of many politicians is to create tax breaks for the rich, and by making taxes as complicated as possible, they can trick the populace into agreeing to just about anything that would "simplify" the tax code.
That makes a lot of sense. And it is not just about simplifying, it is also the general disdain against taxes that facilitates tax breaks for the rich.
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
The government here (Spain) knows the money I make just as any government knows about its citizens. When I'm to do my taxes, I get an auto generated draft and the only thing I have to do is click the "Accept" button. You only have to fill your taxes manually if you're self employed or have some sort of earnings other than your job, in which case, the company that does you accounting, does the taxes for you too in 15…
> The government here (Spain) knows the money I make just as any government knows about its citizens. The problem the IRS is trying to solve is collecting taxes on money they don't know about. For example, if you sell illegal drugs, you should be paying tax on that income. But obviously you don't report to the government the amount of illegal drugs you sell. So they can't just send you a bill for your taxes. It is od…
Drug dealers aren't stupid enough to be reporting their incomes to the IRS, they're just getting an extra criminal charge when they get caught.
It's not the IRS caring about losing revenue, but lobbying from tax firms that's the problem.
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#48So many people offering explanations, and yet not a single one of them answers the OP's question. If you're upset that Intuit is engaging in lobbying (as you should be!), that might be an appropriate answer for a different question (eg: why doesn't the IRS just send us their own reports for us to approve?). Again, I am not defending Intuit's involvement in politics, but that's not the answer to the dark patterns ques…
"why doesn't the IRS just send us their own reports for us to approve?"
I assume because nobody would file taxes for things that the IRS was absent from their report, because now you know the IRS doesn't know about it and won't be missing it.
I think TurboTax has too many partnerships and offers. It gets people because it's free or only $10 or whatever. It would be pretty easy to switch to other software, like HR Block.
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#49They are frustrated, they're simply not aware that Intuit and other players have exercised regulatory capture to make it so awful and blame "the government" since the IRS is the face of it. Other modernized nations have nothing like this insanity, often sending people yearly reports they can accept (since for most cases they are accurate) or send in amendments. This is far from the only issue that business interests…
> Intuit and other players
I hate to defend Intuit, but this is backwards. It is more accurately "Other players and Intuit" where "Other players" means the Republican Party. Thanks to efforts by Grover Norquist, the GOP is fundamentally opposed to making it easier for the IRS to collect taxes.
Intuit's lobbying efforts are practically meaningless in comparison.
Re: Ask HN: How does TurboTax get away with dark patterns?
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
The government here (Spain) knows the money I make just as any government knows about its citizens. When I'm to do my taxes, I get an auto generated draft and the only thing I have to do is click the "Accept" button. You only have to fill your taxes manually if you're self employed or have some sort of earnings other than your job, in which case, the company that does you accounting, does the taxes for you too in 15…
> The government here (Spain) knows the money I make just as any government knows about its citizens. The problem the IRS is trying to solve is collecting taxes on money they don't know about. For example, if you sell illegal drugs, you should be paying tax on that income. But obviously you don't report to the government the amount of illegal drugs you sell. So they can't just send you a bill for your taxes. It is od…
Are they really trying to solve the problem of unreported income? Does it really solve that problem? We could look at that data from the IRS with a little study, and compare it to the productivity costs of millions of Americans compiling tax returns.
The main problem tax returns are trying to solve is that Americans aren’t enraged enough at their taxes to demand lower taxes (on the rich) or a much simpler (and regressive) flat tax. I posit that there is no technical or financial incentive at all, and that the aim of the tax filing regulations is entirely political.