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Rethinking Levels, Promotions and Salaries

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Re: Rethinking Levels, Promotions and Salaries

#201

Post by throwawaygjdbsj »

pc86 wrote: post #110
sokoloff wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s fascinating to me. I’d love to chat more deeply about that, but I can’t see a way to get at the essence of the difference in an HN thread.

I tend toward your side of things. In your first 0-n years of experience, you're growing extremely quickly (hopefully). You're working with a lot of new tech, new people, if n is greater than 4 or 5, hopefully at least two companies if not three. But by the time you have n -teen years of experience, it's much more like you've been repeating the same year of experience over and over again. Growth, especially if you ha…

About 15 years into my career here.

I stopped learning programming skills on the job about 7 years ago.

Today, Im still learning new languages, frameworks and libraries.

I'm also still growing in regards to,

Management skills, project skill, leadership skills, self time management, effective habits, not to mention work life balance things as my life now requires it.

Re: Rethinking Levels, Promotions and Salaries

#202

Post by daniel-cussen »

humanrebar wrote: post #74
angarg12 wrote: post #50

I worked for a very old fashioned company in Germany that used a similar system to pay employees. After about a year I became the lead of my team. But since some of my colleagues had been in the company about 10 years, they were getting paid more than me. Frustrated, I left for a better (and better paying) job. I believe these systems produce a "dead sea effect". High performer will leave, being able to get better de…

If you felt you were underpaid, leaving is fair. I don't really understand the requirement that all bosses are paid more than those they supervise, though. I mean, emotionally I can understand feeling that way. But I don't think it's a rule of nature or something. For instance, coaches often make less than their star players. Directors and producers often make less than star actors. Hospital directors seem to make le…

In Wall Street it's common for CEOs to make say 30 million dollars, not more, supervising sick but like SICK traders that haul in arbitrary amounts.

Also whalers in California, there were groups of guys like "we're a great team, we're men, we know how to swim, let's hunt Grey Whales" and hired a captain. On a ship it is imperative to do whatever the captain says, but that doesn't mean the hierarchy exists on shore with the money. There were also captains who hired sailors, more often.

Re: Rethinking Levels, Promotions and Salaries

#203

Post by throwaway2037 »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #159
throwaway2037 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed this comment does not receive more comments! I feel the same. From far away, it seems like Berlin is bursting with great technical talent, as well as Copenhagen, Stockholm, and Helsinki, yet the salaries are terribly low. (I see you Oslo, but not the same reputation!) Oh hey, please include France. They have such great, underrated technical universities... do amazing comp-sci research... but their c…

The income inequality in the US is not that visible in day-to-day life. A large fraction of the income inequality is a side effect of the scale of US geography. The States with the highest and lowest median incomes are separated by 2x income and 1500 kilometers. It is also worth pointing out that even the poorest US State (Mississippi) still has a median income that is the same as Germany, so "poor" is relative. Diff…

North East San Francisco vs West Oakland

Closer: San Francisco: Montgomery Street business district vs Tenderloin district

Even closer: Mission District -- Mission and 16th Street. Walk east one block and you reliable find used needles on the street. Walk west two blocks is quickly wealthy.

New York City: Manhattan vs Bronx

Closer: Upper East Side vs East Harlem (125th Street and above)

All of these pair are close and would surprise many by the huge gap in quality of life between both of them.

This one should be like catnip for HN: Palo Alto vs East Palo Alto

Are these close enough for you?

Re: Rethinking Levels, Promotions and Salaries

#204

Post by throwaway2037 »

thebackup wrote: post #167
throwaway2037 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am disappointed this comment does not receive more comments! I feel the same. From far away, it seems like Berlin is bursting with great technical talent, as well as Copenhagen, Stockholm, and Helsinki, yet the salaries are terribly low. (I see you Oslo, but not the same reputation!) Oh hey, please include France. They have such great, underrated technical universities... do amazing comp-sci research... but their c…

It's hard to answer your question without actually experiencing the differences first hand. It's not like we don't have visible poverty in Sweden. Almost every day I see people digging through the public trash bins for bottles and cans that pays a little for recycling and there are beggars in front of the stores and approaching you on the street asking for a money. There is however a base pension that each senior cit…

Different idea: If you get the chance, take a very high paying job in the United States for a few years. You don't need to stay forever, but you will see with your own eyes... and make a bunch of money. You'll be "richer" in more than one way -- savings account and experience.

Re: Rethinking Levels, Promotions and Salaries

#205

Post by flibblercorn »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #162
flibblercorn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes that is something that comes up on hackernews a lot, and I personally still struggle to accept it. According to the Daily level system I should be in their band 5, so $210K, but in England I am paid less than half their entry level salary (at current exchange rates). Americans don't have IQ scores, or any other metric to suggest being approximately 4-8 times the quality of other developed countries workers, so it…

I am an American who has worked in Europe for many years at multiple companies, so I feel at least somewhat qualified to give some insight. Europeans are just as talented technically as Americans, that has never been the issue. As a broad generalization, European business culture is consistently poor at leveraging that talent to generate value, often treating it like factory work. Because American business culture is…

Yes, I am aware that the salary for an entry level employee on the Daily system is more than the total value I bring to my employer per year. I am paid less than half because I already eat up about 60-70%* of the total income I bring to the company.

The ability to earn American style wages, without trying to emigrate, is entirely out of my hands. There isn't anything I can do short of risk homelessness for myself and my family in the attempt to create a better business (which I am incredibly unlikely to be able to do).

* depending on quarter, project, year by year, etc.

Re: Rethinking Levels, Promotions and Salaries

#206

Post by flashgordon »

So couple of things that stood out for me here:

* Constant pay hikes per level (~30k every 2-3 years)

* Any equity guidelines for level (especially since it is a startup) - I assume this is not a 9-5 job given it is a series B startup?

* No mention of what leadership team makes (VP of Eng is ultimately a managerial role - is it equal to L7? L8? YoE a consideration in this role?)

* Company is fully remote - Remote within the US? Any where in the world?

* How will (if at all) cost-of-living be adjusted (for remote)?

* What is the interview process like (Is leetcode grinding still required - effectively pushing for a "fresher" workforce?).

* If comp affects the "quality" of hire - what is the perf management (and appraisal) culture looking like in there?

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